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Those Who Leave and Those Who Stay (2013)

de Elena Ferrante

Outros autores: Veja a seção outros autores.

Séries: Neapolitan Novels (3)

MembrosResenhasPopularidadeAvaliação médiaMenções
2,038755,824 (4.19)100
Since the publication of My Brilliant Friend, the first of the Neapolitan novels, Elena Ferrante's fame as one of our most compelling, insightful, and stylish contemporary authors has grown enormously. She has gained admirers among authors--Jhumpa Lahiri, Elizabeth Strout, Claire Messud, to name a few--and critics--James Wood, John Freeman, Eugenia Williamson, for example. But her most resounding success has undoubtedly been with readers, who have discovered in Ferrante a writer who speaks with great power and beauty of the mysteries of belonging, human relationships, love, family, and friendship. In this third Neapolitan novel, Elena and Lila, the two girls whom readers first met in My Brilliant Friend, have become women. Lila married at sixteen and has a young son; she has left her husband and the comforts of her marriage brought and now works as a common laborer. Elena has left the neighborhood, earned her college degree, and published a successful novel, all of which has opened the doors to a world of learned interlocutors and richly furnished salons. Both women are pushing against the walls of a prison that would have seen them living a life of mystery, ignorance and submission. They are afloat on the great sea of opportunities that opened up during the nineteen-seventies. Yet they are still very much bound to see each other by a strong, unbreakable bond.… (mais)
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Inglês (56)  Italiano (5)  Alemão (5)  Holandês (2)  Sueco (2)  Espanhol (2)  Francês (2)  Catalão (1)  Todos os idiomas (75)
Mostrando 1-5 de 75 (seguinte | mostrar todas)
Even if we don’t admit or try to deny it, we all have a difficult relationship with mirrors. As I age, I believe I have become more disdainful of it, less preoccupied with the reflection of myself, less worried that I don’t conform to some societal rules of beauty or femininity. Yet, if I don’t scrutinize the mirror as I once did in my teenage years – oh, those years when the mirror seemed to reflect so much of my perceived faults – these days the mirror surprises me. There are times when a fast glance shows not the person I perceive myself to be, but I get glimpses of my mother, my grandmothers, my sisters, or even my father in a nanosecond of time. A smile, a wrinkle, a stance… all remind me of others, what I have become or will become, and what I am no longer.

What if then the mirror was alive, an organic entity, that also changed as time went by? Would the mirror see in us its faults? Would the mirror idealize us or hate us?

In this series – I am writing this one single review for the 4 books as I felt them to be too interconnected to be reviewed separately – Elena Ferrante’s writing made me think of mirrors constantly. The 2 main characters lives are connected in a web of relationships, friendship, cultural and geographical background, aspirations, tragedy, envy, love and hate. They reflected each other’s lives and used such reflection as measurement of themselves, either being propelled forward by the comparison, or held back in a stated of continual resentment and hurt for what they did not achieve. We all have experienced this, I am sure. The facebook friend’s vacation that reminds us that we have not had a vacation in a long time. The high school classmate that looks so much younger, happier and richer than we do. Or the one that has been struck by personal tragedy and that reminds us that our own lives are blessed after all. All reflecting back at us, as true mirrors, our unfilled dreams, our shortcomings and, if we perceive ourselves being happy and successful, our pride and entitlement.

In the background of the main storyline, the lives of two women for more than 50 years, we learn of the neighborhood dynamics in this Naples shantytown, then of the political and cultural waves happening in Italy. We are exposed to motherhood, feminism, class warfare, family dysfunction, sexual awakening, violence, etc, etc, etc….

If I have one complain about Elena Ferrante’s writing is that it seems too long winding at times. She – whoever she may be, or he, as Elena Ferrante is an alias and although all the speculation about its true identy, we might never know – has a love for words and descriptions. We as readers can almost feel the pleasure she must have felt writing long and beautiful lines. I felt as drunk for her words as she must have felt writing them. But at times I wished that the narrator hurried on. The amount of detail seemed unnecessary and overly done. However I will forgive her, because when it was finally done, I felt sorry that she had not keep on going and lulled me along for yet longer.

I should mention that I listened to the whole series in audio and that Hilary Huber does a beautiful and nuanced reading of it.
( )
  RosanaDR | Apr 15, 2021 |
Mi favorito de la tetralogía de Ferrante. Me parece el más redondo y en dónde se madura la historia. ( )
  GabbadelaMoraP | Apr 8, 2021 |
Mit diesem Buch ist bei mir der Funke richtig übergesprungen! Es geht um die jungen Erwachsenenjahre von Elena Greco und Lila Cerullo - sie heiraten, bekommen Kinder, trennen sich, fassen beruflich Fuß - jede auf ihre Weise.
Zudem spielen Zeithintergründe eine große Rolle, politische Unruhen, Studentenproteste, Feminismus, Neofaschismus und - sehr intereessant - der Beginn des Computerzeitalters, denn Lina und Enzo arbeiten als Programmierer. ( )
  Wassilissa | Mar 23, 2021 |
Elsa Ferrante a réussi à écrire une fresque ample et très vivante de Naples et de l’Italie, au sortir de la seconde guerre mondiale jusqu’à la fin du siècle, en passant par les noires années du fascisme.
C’est une véritable saga mettant en scène de multiples personnages presque tous liés les aux autres d’une manière ou d’une autre. Il y est question de plusieurs familles dont certaines se vouent une haine féroce.
Les personnages au centre du récit sont Elena, la narratrice qui, aux moyens d’efforts scolaires sans compter, parviendra à sortir du lot jusqu’à devenir une auteure assez célébrée, et Lila, camarade d’école extraordinairement intelligente et douée qui, happée par la pauvreté de son milieu, se marie très jeune avec un boutiquier sans jamais mettre à profit ses dons hors du commun.
Tandis que le premier volume décrit les années d’enfance et d’adolescence, les deux tomes qui suivent font le récit de l’âge adulte, le quatrième allant jusqu’à l’orée de la vieillesse.
Fidélité à l’enfance en même temps qu’un immense besoin de s’affranchir de la misère qu’elle caractérise, tant matérielle qu’intellectuelle au sein de la famille : la tétralogie d’Elena Ferrante est un long roman d’apprentissage dans lequel l’évolution n'est jamais linéaire. De doutes en remises en question, d’échecs en succès, de belles surprises en revers, rien n’est jamais acquis et l’objectif d’une vie supérieure et « heureuse » (si tant est que le bonheur ait véritablement un sens dans ce récit) se vit d’abord comme une course aveugle entre rivaux (mais n’en est-il pas hélas ainsi de tant de vies ?). Elena et Lila n’ont de cesse de se mesurer l’une à l’autre, de s’ignorer et de se dévorer tour à tour, de s’aimer et de se détester. Elles peinent à exister sans le regard de l’autre, encore davantage sous le regard de l’autre.
Caractère insondable, trouble, ambivalent et terriblement inconstant des relations que l’on entretient avec autrui, notamment au sein d’une relation « amicale ». On est loin de l’amitié de Montaigne et de La Boétie !
Il faut dire qu’aucun personnage ne suscite la sympathie dans cette tétralogie à la fois sombre et réaliste (ou alors de courte durée). Chacun est dépeint, à commencer par la narratrice, dans sa vérité la plus crue et souvent peu reluisante. Colère, envie, jalousie, désir de vengeance et d’écraser « son prochain » occupent la plupart des personnages. Il y a heureusement des exceptions : Enzo, compagnon taiseux et stable de Lila après qu’elle ait quitté son mari, et Pietro, mari d’Elena que cette dernière quittera pour Nino, l’amour d’enfance, brillant et séduisant, ambitieux et malin, mais qui aime toutes les femmes et qui n’appartient à personne.
Source d’agacement régulière par la profusion de détails qu’il charrie, ce long roman n’en étonne pas moins par son ampleur et sa force. Que de personnages, que de thématiques, quel regard acéré et sans concession porté sur les relations interpersonnelles ! Amitié, folie amoureuse, carcan familial, affranchissement par l’acquisition de connaissance, militantisme, mafia, écriture, sexualité, violence, féminisme, maternité, deuil, etc., font partie des nombreuses thématiques véritablement développées et en aucun cas effleurées.
On est effrayé par le degré de violence omniprésente régnant à Naples au siècle dernier (et il n’est pas certain que cette violence se soit radicalement apaisée depuis), par le caractère inextricable de l’attachement à la famille, y compris quand elle montre son visage le plus monstrueux.
Le premier tome, plus particulièrement dédié aux années d’enfance et d’adolescence des deux protagonistes, a suscité chez moi un intérêt somme toute un peu tiède. Il n’en a pas été de même avec les deux tomes suivants, que j’ai trouvés plus mûrs et plus percutants, alors que l’on assiste au combat de personnages, désormais plus familiers et plus riches par l’épaisseur que l’auteure leur a conféré, tentant de faire face à leur existence et même de lui donner un sens (par le militantisme, le terrorisme, l’écriture, l’amour, l’agent…). Petite baisse de régime, me semble-t-il, dans le quatrième et derrnier tome... peut-être en écho au rythme des existences qui faiblit au fur et à mesure du temps qui passe ? ( )
  biche1968 | Feb 5, 2021 |
Dues dones que que han intentat trencar les barreres que les volien tancar en un destí de miseria , ignorancia i submissió, les dues navegant amb un ritme apassionant alls principis dels setanta ( )
  isabelalberti | Jan 23, 2021 |
Mostrando 1-5 de 75 (seguinte | mostrar todas)
...
Writing about the Brilliant Friend books has been one of the hardest assignments I’ve ever done. When I began, I thought I felt this way because I loved them so much and didn’t know where to start with all my praising. Then I had to fight a deep desire not to mention the things I most liked in the novels so I could keep them to myself. Now my view of the matter is that somehow Ferrante so thoroughly succeeds in her aim of seizing at “the evasive thing” that she has stirred up something from the depths of her mind that touches and spreads through mine.

It has to do, presumably, with femininity, with having been a girl who loved reading and was supposed to know that you have to let the boys keep winning at math. It has to do too with the less gendered but even more bodily experience of living in and through a mind. And it has to do, profoundly, with living in a mind and being touched by another one: delighted, exasperated, confused, envious, sorrowful, appalled. As the years go by, the women in these novels allow the holes in their friendship to spread, yet Elena feels the presence of Lila constantly, an almost physical pressure, a disturbance in the air. Telling her own story, she thinks, is easy enough: “the important facts slide along the thread of the years like suitcases on a conveyor belt at an airport.” But involving Lila, “the belt slows down, accelerates, swerves abruptly . . . The suitcases fall off, fly open, their contents scatter here and there. Her things end up among mine.”

“May I point out something?” Lila says to Elena in one of the women’s scarce, increasingly ill-tempered phone conversations in the Seventies. “You always use true and truthfully, when you speak and when you write. Or you say: unexpectedly. But when do people ever speak truthfully and when do things ever happen unexpectedly? You know better than I that it’s all a fraud and that one thing follows another and then another.”

This, in a nutshell, is Lila’s problem, perhaps her tragedy. She thinks so fast and with such ferocious rigor; she sees connections and discerns so many fine distinctions; she’s impossible and overwhelming — “too much for anyone” and, most of all, for herself. But Elena keeps thinking about her, putting her on the page. Great novels are intelligent far beyond the powers of any character or writer or individual reader, as are great friendships, in their way. These wonderful books sit at the heart of that mystery, with the warmth and power of both.
adicionado por aileverte | editarHarper's, Jenny Turner (pay site) (Oct 1, 2014)
 

» Adicionar outros autores (25 possíveis)

Nome do autorFunçãoTipo de autorObra?Status
Elena Ferranteautor principaltodas as ediçõescalculado
Goldstein, AnnTradutorautor secundárioalgumas ediçõesconfirmado
Huber, HillaryNarradorautor secundárioalgumas ediçõesconfirmado
Laake, Marieke vanTradutorautor secundárioalgumas ediçõesconfirmado

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Since the publication of My Brilliant Friend, the first of the Neapolitan novels, Elena Ferrante's fame as one of our most compelling, insightful, and stylish contemporary authors has grown enormously. She has gained admirers among authors--Jhumpa Lahiri, Elizabeth Strout, Claire Messud, to name a few--and critics--James Wood, John Freeman, Eugenia Williamson, for example. But her most resounding success has undoubtedly been with readers, who have discovered in Ferrante a writer who speaks with great power and beauty of the mysteries of belonging, human relationships, love, family, and friendship. In this third Neapolitan novel, Elena and Lila, the two girls whom readers first met in My Brilliant Friend, have become women. Lila married at sixteen and has a young son; she has left her husband and the comforts of her marriage brought and now works as a common laborer. Elena has left the neighborhood, earned her college degree, and published a successful novel, all of which has opened the doors to a world of learned interlocutors and richly furnished salons. Both women are pushing against the walls of a prison that would have seen them living a life of mystery, ignorance and submission. They are afloat on the great sea of opportunities that opened up during the nineteen-seventies. Yet they are still very much bound to see each other by a strong, unbreakable bond.

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