Life of Pi: which story do you believe?

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Life of Pi: which story do you believe?

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1krazy4katz
Editado: Mar 25, 2009, 12:13pm

Hi,

I just wanted to do a statistical survey of people who read Life of Pi. Which story did you believe: the one with the animals or the one without animals? I wonder if it will reveal something about us (or not).

Note: you need to read to the very end of the book to make this decision.

Thank you very much!

k4k

PS. I'll go first: with the animals

2TonyaSB
Mar 25, 2009, 5:26pm

My first read through, once I got to the end of the book I thought maybe the whole part with the lion was allegory but the more people I talk to the more I'm not sure. Most people seem to think the whole story is just as it's printed.

3krazy4katz
Mar 26, 2009, 8:58pm

Thanks, Tonya. I think it is important to go with your own feelings on this. For me, I try to pretend I am basing my decision on "the preponderance of evidence", but the truth is, I just want to believe the story with the animals.

It is possible Yann Martel himself does not know which story is true.

k4k

4TonyaSB
Mar 27, 2009, 4:54pm

Has he ever given an interview about the two the stories in the book?

5krazy4katz
Mar 27, 2009, 9:13pm

I don't know. On his LibraryThing author page, there is a link to an interview he did with The Onion: http://www.avclub.com/content/interview/yann_martel

I skimmed it and didn't see that it was directly addressed. Probably the interviewer thought he wouldn't answer, so didn't bother to ask. There is a discussion of people making too much of the difference between fact and fiction. Perhaps that is part of the answer. Facts alone do not tell the entire story. Still, I do wonder what he thinks.

k4k

6FAMeulstee
Editado: Mar 30, 2009, 3:43pm

I would like it if the story with the animals was true, but I think the story with the people is the truth...

I think it is ultimately heart/fantasy vs mind/facts.

7SusieBookworm
Editado: Mar 30, 2009, 5:38pm

I was rather confused about that part...glad I'm not the only one!
I don't have an opinion one way or the other.
On one hand, Pi might have thought that no one would believe his story, because living with a tiger on a boat for that long seems a bit fantastical. If he imagined that part, he also came back to reality really fast. The idea that it was an allegory was very sudden; there was no hint of it beforehand, he just randomly said it was an allegory close to the end of the book and mentioned the fact briefly.
On the other hand, his story is a bit fantastical, especially the floating carnivorous island. It would make sense for the story to be an allegory, as Pi went through a traumatic experience and making up a story might have helped him cope with it.
I agree with krazy4katz. Maybe the author had no clear idea of which one was intended to be the truth, and it's the reader's discretion.
Either way, it's a great book.

8krazy4katz
Mar 30, 2009, 6:16pm

The one "fact" that makes me think the animal story is true (and I agree with FAM, that I am trying to find the data to make what I want to believe be true) is that I don't think his mother could have gotten out of the boat. When Pi tried to go back to find his family, the stairs were covered with water.

Ok, so that ignores the question: how did the animals get out of their cages, but oh well...

k4k

9readmetender
Abr 16, 2009, 6:59pm

I think it's a fantastic work of fiction. I agree with FAM that it's a question of "heart/fantasy vs mind/facts" The story with the animals is amazing, but I don't think that's the truth.

10careyi
Abr 16, 2009, 7:10pm

since the supposed fantasy part was much longer and, to me, more interesting, i still think of it as true even though i recognize that probably you're supposed to realize that it's not. i can't help but think it's true, though it's not intended to be

11BCCJillster
Jun 2, 2009, 9:57pm

I'm late to the party but I loved this book and can't resist.

I saw an interview with Martel in which he said that it was important that the reader make the choice. Wish I still had the link, sorry.

My personal choice was the animal story but my fuller take on the book was that Martel was giving us a parallel for religious choices. That each has its own story/mythology, but the essence is the same regardless of how the story is told. Guess that's why I loved the book so much, and whether my interpretation is on the mark or not, it makes me happy (grin).

12krazy4katz
Editado: Jun 3, 2009, 4:16pm

Thanks for your response, BC. I agree there are parallels with religious choices, but still, the animals are real and gods are not. So I still feel comfortable believing the animal story. :-)

k4k

ETA: I should have been more precise in my language and say that animals are part of our physical world and gods are not. I don't mean to imply that gods or God is not real. I don't want to get into that debate here.

13CK8
Jun 3, 2009, 4:09pm

Pi's heart is willing him to believe the animal story is true. I think the book illustrates that our minds can make anything true, and make any dream reality.

14bookgirl271
Jun 3, 2009, 9:41pm

Great question. I loved the book, and I don't think it matters which story you think is true. Having said that, I thought the second story was true, but it is so sad and hard to deal with, that Pi used the first story as a coping mechanism. I'm not sure if as he was living it he saw it with the animals or if that's just how he thinks of it now.

As to the other end coming on quite quickly, that made sense to me. Pi had told this whole elaborate story, but when pressed came out with the other. Like it was painful and hard to do, so he did it quickly (like pulling off a band-aid).

15krazy4katz
Editado: Jun 14, 2009, 3:06pm

Hi everyone,

Just thought I would post that Margaret Atwood weighs in on this question in an interview with Bill Moyers about The Handmaid's Tale in his "Faith and Reason" series. You can watch the video, or you can download the podcast by following the link on the right side of the screen here: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/faithandreason/watch_atwood.html

The reference to The Life of Pi comes at about 28-29 min.

k4k

16NowhereMan88
Jul 23, 2009, 2:40am

Hi, I loved the book throughout, however I always found the end quite difficult to deal with. Personally I don't like the human story (I'm not sure anyone does). However, I do believe that the animal story is actually the true story.

Pi's story is unbelievable, so it is little surprise that the Japanese men did not believe it. They ask for the "true" story. Now for me, here is the first clue. Pi asks them many questions such as "so you want a story without animals? just the facts?" When he says 'Just the facts?' i believe he is here referring to the stripping down of the animal story and replacing the true characters with humans to leave behind just the facts. He then says that all they wanted was 'dry. yeastless factuality', this is a hark back to a previous chapter in which Pi criticises agnostics for wanted only the dry, yeastless factuality and not taking the leap of faith.

Here is the next clue for me. Pi here, I think, is saying that the Japanese men are unable to take the leap of faith in order to believe his story. Here is the crux of it. Pi's story represents a religion, you need to take the leap of faith to believe it, if you do not (like the Japanese men) then you are left with dry, yeastless factuality. After the story Pi asks the men which story they prefer, they reply the animal one, and Pi says 'and so it goes with God'. This points toward the fact that his story requires the leap of faith, just as God does.

Before he tells them the story without animals, there is a long silence. This is when I believe he makes up the following story. His aim in doing so: 1) to please the men who do not believe his story, the true story and 2) to encourage them to take the leap of faith, by telling them a horrific story. He succeeds in this.

To sum up really, I think that the animal story is the true one. In my first read, I desperately hoped the animal one was true. In my second read I looked for clues to hold this hope. The clues I found I have just mentioned, and for me it provides vital hints.

17knyclrk
Dez 16, 2009, 7:36pm

I think that the second story is true, and the first story is just a way to make coping easier. If you look at the characters in the second story they all have animal "doubles". The savage hyena represents the cook, the zebra represents the sailor with the broken leg, the orangutan represents the mother, and the tiger represents Pi.

18saxygurl2011
Mar 21, 2010, 8:20pm

i believe the second story with the humans. I don't think that a tiger wouldn't try to eat a weak human if it was really hungry. It wouldn't just sit there and do nothing to survive. If i was the tiger i would have killed Pi and the other animals. Survival is the main priority of large animals.

19RRHowell
Mar 22, 2010, 9:51am

I think the first story with the tiger is true, but I think that all the stories are about believing (or not believing) in God.

20daffyduck
Abr 28, 2010, 8:36pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

21daffyduck
Abr 28, 2010, 8:36pm

thnax nowhereman88=)
u just solved my essay witin problem....=)

22karen_o
Maio 3, 2010, 5:51pm

I believe the first story -- the one with the tiger.

That's my choice and I'm sticking to it.

23Duhpi
Maio 23, 2010, 12:32pm

I think that the second story( without animals) was true. I think that he changed everyone into animals so that he could cope with it. Good question

24bboy51
Jun 12, 2010, 10:56am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

25bboy51
Jun 12, 2010, 10:59am

i think that the first story is true too. iunno im doing an essay on it right now trying to prove the first story, and i only have two arguments right now, and looking for a third, but the first one is that pi is greatly experienced with zoo animals so therefore it makes the first story more plausible. secondly there is eveidence that the first story is true. on the ship when he hears the 'explosion' it says that he went but two three four flights of stairs to get to deck, and then when he goes back down one flight of stairs all he sees is water. therefore his mother couldnt have survived. and aswell with the meercat bones left in the lifeboat, i know the japenese ppl argue that they could be monguse bones but i dont think so.. if you know a third argument in which the first story is true that would be awesome to know

26RRHowell
Jun 12, 2010, 1:32pm

It's a novel, so neither story is true. But what does he say about truth in asking the question?

27krazy4katz
Jun 12, 2010, 1:35pm

Hi bboy51,

I can't think of a third argument, but your second argument was the strongest one I thought of when I was reading the book.

The one argument AGAINST the first story is how did all the cages open? Wouldn't they have been locked...

k4k

28Mikail89uk
Nov 2, 2010, 10:08pm

can you give me your essay i gotta hand in essay about this :(

29krazy4katz
Nov 3, 2010, 12:28am

Mikail89uk: Noooooo!!!!!! That's not the point. You need to write it yourself!!

There is no correct answer, What do YOU think??

k4k

30Mikail89uk
Nov 3, 2010, 11:12am

krazy4katz i didnt ask u dont take ir personal i asked rest of pppl cos its under ur messege that doesnt mean i asked u

with respect

31MerryMary
Nov 3, 2010, 12:05pm

Dear child, k4k is right in her statement that you should share your own thoughts and not use some one else's. Your own thoughts and insights are valuable to your teacher.

Attacking someone because they comment on your post in an open forum is not necessary or welcome.

32krazy4katz
Editado: Nov 3, 2010, 9:10pm

Sorry, Mikail89uk, I did not mean to offend you. I really didn't. I was just trying to encourage you to do your own thinking for your essay and I may have gone overboard in my enthusiasm.

k4k

33ranger24
Ago 24, 2011, 5:20pm

sorry i'm late but i just read the book over the summer and i loved it. there are so many arguments that one can make for each story, and i'm trying to find the best one for each. just like everyone else i want to believe in the story with the animals but the one with the humans sounds more realistic. the argument stated by NowhereMan88 was amzaing and so was the one by bboy51.

34krazy4katz
Ago 24, 2011, 6:33pm

Welcome to LT, ranger 24!

k4k

35FordStaff
Ago 24, 2011, 7:55pm

I know the answer straight from the author (sorry don't have link but my memory is proficient, hopefully).

Neither, the two stories are just tools for the author to demonstrate a point. One story is more interesting and fanciful while the other is gritty and down to earth. The animal story represents god while the human story represents I suppose no god. What I mean by this is that the author is making the point that while the story with humans is more rational the animal story just feels better to believe in than the human story and such how it is with believing in god (This is the boiled down point from the author, This is not me speaking I do not agree at all).

The book can also be seen as a test for how far your suspension of disbelief can extend. If you make it the whole book until the second story is revealed presumably you will be more apt to believe in god (Ironic in that this is how I was yet I am an atheist).

To put it in one sentence the author is saying that we should believe in god because it is the better sounding story(aka animal story) than the alternative of no god(aka human story).

36FordStaff
Ago 24, 2011, 7:58pm

For the information that I claim from post 35 I do not remember where I received. Hopefully I retold what I remember in the most unbiased way possible (I strongly disagree with the book in this light).

37krazy4katz
Ago 24, 2011, 9:19pm

35, 36> Hi FordStaff. Some atheists might agree with the author, although perhaps not in the way he intended. The idea of a god is so comforting that people want to believe whether it is true or not. That would explain a lot of the intensity surrounding religious belief.

k4k

38FordStaff
Ago 25, 2011, 4:28am

It was not about comfort but rather that explaining the universe with god is suppose to be more elegant and this I (and probably most atheist) will disagree with. The general conception of an atheist in the realm of public opinion (talking about America here can not speak for other countries) is someone who is a Nietzsche wannabee prick who can only receive joy from trying to wage war with any display of religious convictions by verbally assaulting the enemy. I for one try to enjoy life as much as possible while respecting others, and believing in god would not make the universe more elegant than I view it now.

I became an atheist after inspecting my religious belief that was instilled by parents (I suspect most atheist are like this). You can not just simply believe something is true after much introspection on the subject. Sure people will believe stuff for comfort but most of the time I suspect that it is on subjects the said person has not thought much about. In other words it is impractical to believe in things because they are comforting and or the more elegant explanation in most situations. Let me give you an exaggerated example to demonstrate the point. Imagine you fell off a 100 story building. It would certainly be comforting to believe that you will somehow be impervious to the deadly acceleration you will experience on the pavement ,but would you be able to actually believe it when your life experience time and time again yells back and forth in your head as you plummet to earth that your a dead man/woman?

I agree that it may be more comforting to believe in god but NOT with any of the gods in the mainstream religions(particularly the monotheistic ones that Pi investigates in the book) because in those religions there is a hell after all (not very comforting but the very opposite). If I could choose a religion that would become true it would NEVER be Christianity, Islam, or Judaism. Most other religions would probably be ruled out automatically too but I do not know enough about them to have an opinion.

39krazy4katz
Ago 25, 2011, 2:46pm

Well, as someone who is Jewish and married to a Buddhist, it has been my personal observation that eastern religions are more tolerant. For example, if you go to Japan, you will see a Shinto shrine on the grounds of a Buddhist temple. They seem to co-exist. People there tend to have Shinto weddings and Buddhist funerals. That is not the conventional western way of thinking, for sure! It is probably dangerous to generalize, since many wars and countless deaths all over the world can be attributed to religious disputes. For example the Hindu caste system, hopefully on its way out.

I suspect that most people are religious because it makes them feel better. I agree with you -- wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. However, religion is like a family when you need to feel like you belong somewhere. Looking in from the outside is different. People are good or evil irrespective of their religious beliefs, in my humble opinion. Religion doesn't change one's basic nature. And people can abuse/distort religious concepts for their own purposes.

Just as an aside, I am not sure the concept of Heaven and Hell is in the Old Testament. Is it in the New? Or is it one of these Middle Age type notions that somehow became incorporated into Christianity (not Judaism as far as I know -- have no idea about Islam).

40FordStaff
Ago 25, 2011, 4:25pm

I am very glad to see that religious discussion can be civil. To be honest I am not certain about the origin of hell in christian belief and I was assuming that Judaism and Islam had this concept also (perhaps not?). Perhaps someone knowledgeable can enlighten us. It is not hell itself that is unsettling to me but rather that sapient beings will be filtered into different versions of an afterlife.

I did not mean wanting something to be true doesn't make it true although I agree. I mean to say wanting to believe in something will not give you the ability to believe in it.

Everything you say in your post I agree with. I am not one of those atheist who thinks religion is all bad all the time. In fact most of the time (at least in the modern world) I have no problem with it.

41millhold
Ago 25, 2011, 4:50pm

In college, I took a Bible as Literature class, and wrote a paper titled, "What Is Hell, and Where Did It Come From?" with an annotated bibliography.

As the daughter of an ordained Southern Baptist minister, the research was very enlightening, and after reading my paper (graded "A") my father refused to speak with me for almost a year! Did I mention I was in my early 40s when I wrote it?

Not wanting to get into ANY religious arguments, discussions, or anything like that here, but will only mention that the notion of "hell" is a New Testament device.

42krazy4katz
Ago 25, 2011, 7:18pm

Very interesting millhold. Thank you! By the way, I did not mean to imply that odd ideas of the middle ages only influenced Christianity. I know Judaism acquired some also.

43Booksloth
Ago 26, 2011, 6:41am

As others have commented, neither story is 'true', Pi is a work of fiction. The first story is beautiful, comforting, lyrical and warm, the second is hard and vile and heart-breaking. We are drawn to the first story because it makes us feel better, just as some people are still drawn to stories and myths that make them feel better about the world we live in and what happens to us after the ultimate ship-wreck we call death. That doesn't make it the more likely option to be true though. Or, as my grandfather used to say - You should never ruin a good story with facts.

44ranger24
Ago 29, 2011, 10:54pm

k4k and Fordstaff please somehow find a way to continue your conversation because it is very intersting to read and i feel like im learning alot

45FordStaff
Ago 30, 2011, 7:17pm

I do not have particular depth when it comes to religious knowledge so I was kinda at the end of the rope for that conversation.

46krazy4katz
Ago 30, 2011, 8:28pm

Well, I am willing to have an opinion on anything, so feel free to ask questions.

I had a friend who wanted to make up business cards, as a joke, that said the following:
"Consultants, Inc. Often Wrong. Never in Doubt."

;-)

So, do you think Yann Martel, the author of Life of Pi believes in G/god or is he an agnostic or an atheist?

k4k

47FordStaff
Editado: Set 1, 2011, 8:58pm

I too will give an opinion if asked so long as it is quite clear to all involved that they are mere opinions(that includes the opinions they assert also). The problem with opinions is that 99.99999999% of them are wrong

48FordStaff
Editado: Set 1, 2011, 8:58pm

Accidental Post. Deleted.

49FordStaff
Editado: Set 1, 2011, 9:25pm

My posts are going haywire on this thread and will not let me post my whole paragraph. It is very strange.

50krazy4katz
Editado: Set 1, 2011, 9:45pm

Sorry to hear that FordStaff! Maybe you have some tab or shift button continually pressed?

I will voice an opinion on my own question, from #46:
I think Yann Martel is an agnostic -- someone who believes the existence of God is unknowable, at least by present day technology. However, since religion helps build a sense of family and security in the world by believing that an all-knowing and benevolent being is in charge, it is better to believe in "him" than not. He selects the story with the animals too.

k4k

51FordStaff
Set 2, 2011, 4:16pm

Time to try again then.

In order of likelihood I would say that the author either follows a denomination of Christianity, then Judaism or Islam, or is merely a non main stream believer in god such as a deist(Personally I do not even consider deist to believe in god considering the common usage of the word god). I would not think him agnostic or atheist because I find it hard to believe that a member of either group(particularly atheists) would write a book whose purpose is to convince others to believe in god (or at the very least give a reason to believe in god). I am curious as to why you believe the author is an agnostic. I am basing my speculation merely on the book(and the article where he outlines his meaning) and ignoring his name and biographical information which I do not know.

52Booksloth
Set 3, 2011, 6:39am

In case anyone cares, Martel describes himself as 'religious, but critical of organised religion' - http://bigthink.com/ideas/19919

53krazy4katz
Editado: Set 4, 2011, 1:23pm

Thank you, Booksloth.

That is a very beautiful interview. I am not sure I would classify him as religious in my standard thinking of the word, which is, of course, very western since that is my background. He has chosen to believe for the same reasons the Japanese chose to believe the story with the animals. It makes it easier to live in this world with all the pain and suffering that we see around us. I struggle with this too and have never found an answer. I think of it as an agnostic position with wistfulness. I like his way of thinking, though. It seems like a peaceful way to live.

k4k

54FordStaff
Set 4, 2011, 4:14pm

Yes that link confirms my memory. This is exactly how he spoke of the point in his book.

55danellender
Jan 9, 2012, 5:19pm

Thank you for that explanation of his quote "I have a story that will make you believe in God." This thread and others belie his point. The story does not make one believe in God but in the author's mind may make it a litmus test for belief in God.

I see his logic and understand where he's coming from, but I still think the entire third section was forced. The first and second sections hold up together. The third one pales by comparison, purely in terms of the writing.

56Erin2513
Mar 25, 2012, 2:27pm

Here is the link with the interview with Yann Martel http://www.yorku.ca/yfile/archive/index.asp?Article=2166.
I so wanted to believe the first story, but as it turns out, they are both conjured up by the author. It was a fantastical tale non-the-less and I read it for the second time aloud with my partner. A wonderful way to indulge in this beautiful story.

57Plumloco
Abr 3, 2012, 8:47pm

I don't know which story to believe. Both seem believable.
Totally random but it says Orange Juice is the mother of two fine boys. The two fine boys being Ravi and Pi? Or maybe it's just totally coincidental?

58novis
Editado: Jul 30, 2012, 10:23am

If the intent of the book was to present an allegory about God ("and so it goes with God"), then I would think that the second story is the "true" one... otherwise, the only allegory that'd be left is one that brings us from one reality (with animals) to an even harsher virtual reality, with very little room for God in it.

One aspect of the book that I have a hard time explaining is the fact that Pi, the character, is lying. I don't understand why. He certainly knows what happened to himself, so what are his motivations to conceal it (and quite light-heartedly it seems)? Had those Japanese inspectors led a criminal investigation instead, what would he have done, and what would be left of the allegory? While I realize that the author is free to use the "tricks" he deems necessary, and in this case with great success (we grow attached to the first story, and this is rich of significance), telling such lies doesn't stick with Pi, in my opinion. In that context, his words "and so it goes with God" don't sound pure to me.

Actually I would argue that in an allegory about a topic so enormous as God, Truth should be respected above all, because conceptually when Truth is revealed, it resolves all theories, beliefs and disbeliefs. Although believers may associate Truth with God himself, it is equally meaningful to non-believers: Christians, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Jews, agnostics, atheists, scientists, artists etc. must all be united in an ultimate deference to the Truth, whenever it is revealed.

I'm also a bit bothered by the absence of a notion of engagement related to faith, in this allegory (it sounds as if faith was only a kind of self-beneficial delusion). Finally, one detail that puzzled me... if Richard Parker symbolizes Pi, then what does Pi symbolize, since he's also on that boat? The narrator or author?

59dwang963
Ago 18, 2012, 4:23pm

Richard Parker could represent Pi's animalistic, savage side that is crucial to his survival, whilst the Pi in his story could be the gentle, civilized side. Pi repeatedly states that he would not have been able to survive this ordeal without Richard Parker, possibly suggesting that Pi would not have been able to survive without being savage and animal-like. However, at first, Pi's savage side scares him and he is afraid of it, but eventually he is able to tame it and control it, just like how in his story he trains Richard Parker with his whistle. When Pi returns to civilization in Mexico, Richard Parker leaves immediately, Pi no longer needs to be savage or be in survival mode, so that part of him disappears, but his savagery will always be with him, like when he says that Richard Parker is forever with him.

60Booksloth
Ago 19, 2012, 5:23am

Not sure whether this is such common knowledge that nobody has bothered to mention it or if it's of any interest to anyone. Richard Parker is the name of the cabin boy on the 'Mignonette' which sank in 1884. He was one of four survivors who escaped the wreck in a lifeboat and after many days adrift the passenegrs drew lots to decide who would be killed and eaten by the others. Parker drew the short straw. I find it almost impossible to believe that Martel didn't have this character in mind when he created his own Richard Parker. Two of the survivors were later at the centre of a very famous court case which Wiki outlines here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R_v_Dudley_and_Stephens. Of course, I could be wrong and maybe the names are just a coincidence.

61eric.sagel
Nov 20, 2012, 11:14am

There is a third option. Neither may be "fact" in the world of the story. The interviewers at the end are asking for the facts and do not want a story, but clearly in both versions Pi is giving them a "story." Story means something specific to Pi. Early he says that Christianity has one story whereas Hinduism has many.

62qtgirl
Nov 20, 2012, 10:24pm

I would really like to believe the 1st story was true and I would but for one fact....evidence of aniamls on board. I can't remember. Was there any mention in the book of evidence of animals on the life boat? Fur, bones, scratch marks? Though it could have been an intentional over site by the author to add this information to help keep the choice of which to believe in the readers hands, i find it hard to believe that there would no evidence that a tiger was on board the boat. There definitely would have been scratch marks at the very least (fur, bones, etc. could be explained as washing away in one of the storms).

63DreaC
Editado: Nov 24, 2012, 12:36am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

64DreaC
Editado: Nov 24, 2012, 12:49am

#61 I agree, I'm inclined to believe that neither is completely accurate. The first one could be accurate with some hallucinations brought on by hunger/thirst. The second story just seems...off to me. The zebra and orangutan die very early in the shipwreck. I can understand why a hyena would kill a injured zebra and an orangutan, but why would a human kill so early in the disaster? They had food and should have still had some hope of rescue, you don't usually see that kind of savageness so early. Usually people try to band together, at least initially.

Does anyone else see the connection between the story and William Blake's Tiger and its questions about God?

65mattz608
Nov 25, 2012, 1:47am

My take on the movie/story "Life of Pi" is that the animal story is true. Being that I saw the movie not knowing there was a book, my POV might be, and probably is, limited. I myself 50/50 either story but prefer the animal one which is why I go with it.

Here's a brief writing of my thoughts on both stories and why each has its own convincing traits as to its credibility:

In favor of the animal telling:

1. Pi is experienced with animals, his family owns the zoo in which the animals of it need to be taken care of, trained and managed. Because of this, the animal telling is believable to that Pi actually trained and tamed the tiger. In addition to training Richard Parker to respond to the whistle, staff and calling of his name.

2. There's no way this guy can come up with a story like this so convincing, detailed, with everything about the animals, as soon as the reporters in the hospital are questioning him. The telling of the island, animals, food, storm, animal vs animal attacks, feeding the tiger, saving the tiger etc. just doesn't seem like something anyone could ever make up on the spot nor after a long time of thinking.

3. The depression and feeling Pi has while telling how Richard Parker just left is too real to think its made up. And to Pi's ease of mind, Richard Parker even hesitating before leaving is acknowledgment (or amazing) enough that Pi should continue believing animals do have souls, that religion is true etc.

4. His parents and brother were asleep during the sinking. Even if they woke up, they wouldn't have made it to the only life raft that was deployed from the boat. If the monkey symbolizes his mother, she's not a good swimmer. Even if the monkey did float on a banana raft type thing, the mother would've never made it to the deck before drowning.

In favor of the people telling:

1. Face it, the story is a lot more rational seeming than the actual animal telling.

2. At the end of the movie where it says that "Few survivors can say that they've survived at sea for as long as he, none can say they did with an adult Bangle Tiger" (or along those lines) the reporters picked the animal telling as one better to say. The reason for this is probably the gruesome human version's involvement of cannibalism, murder and separation from mother and child like that.

3. The island is never seen or heard of again? Well then that pretty much conveniently buries the only possible proof the animal telling has.

4. Pi surviving with a wild adult Bengle Tiger is highly unlikely and eventually animal instincts would've triggered no matter what, when Richard Parker is close to starvation, he would've eaten Pi. So because Pi is alive is also proof that the animal telling is probably false.

-------

I've many more points I'd like to add but my time is limited and explaining what's going on in my head isn't always easy. Hopefully this is enough for you to come to a point of decision. Personally I want to believe the animal story though the human one is more rational. Both sides show strong points as to why they've credibility but because Pi has a backstory with all the animals involved and they're not random, it's hard to believe that he could've substituted people for them. Neither the other way around.

Side note: Forgive my grammar, run on sentences, possible spelling errors, the excessive use of etc, etc. *Haha*
I'm only 13.

66pmo94
Nov 28, 2012, 10:31pm

To me, the one statement the main character makes at the end of the movie sums it all up. He says "which story would you rather believe?" and then "religion is the same way".

This means that although it is likely false, just like the main character's story with the animals, religion is a more interesting and exciting story than reality. If you had the choice, would you rather believe in a world where you die and are gone forever (reality), or one where you die and go to this awsome place called heaven (fake awsome story with animals)? Your supposed to realize that the second story is the real though, but that believing in the first story is OK. How this relates to religion is that it doesn't matter what you believe in (religious or not) because either way your gonna be dead by the time you find out which is true and it won't matter. Similarly, whatever story you believe, his ship sunk and his family is dead. So believe and remember the first story if it makes you feel better, even though you know the second story is what really happened.

To me the book isn't literally supposed to make you believe in religion like some critics going to the movie seem to believe. Its just supposed to make you realize that believing in the fake awsome story of religion can help you cope and can make life seem better. Just like how him making up this story with animals makes his experience seem better to us and to him.

I liked the movie! It took me a minute to figure out what he meant by "religion is the same way", and what the message of the movie was but when I finnaly did it put a smile on my face.

67evelynchk
Dez 12, 2012, 12:04pm

For those of you up there who conclude that because of the allegory to religion by the line at the end "which story would you rather believe?", that the 2nd story is the reality while the 1st story is made up, I'd like to say that it is not necessarily so. Religion/ the existence of God is just harder to believe, but that doesn't mean it is false/ not the reality. It could be the reality and we're living in it; it's just impossible to prove. Same as the 2 story: one is more believable, another less so, and yet BOTH CAN BE TRUE. To draw the conclusion that the 1st story is made up simply based on the religion allegory would be a logical fallacy.

68Idrisguitar
Dez 16, 2012, 9:18am

I believe the animal story, because that's what Pi believed, and that's what he needed in order to survive. (Many times he mentions richard parker as the sole reason for his survival.)

Whether it was factually true its totally beside the point in my opinion. It's the story I loved, and it was story needed for the boy to survive.

69angusT6_4eva
Dez 16, 2012, 10:03am

one more argument against the 2nd story,
"the cook eat the rat, kill the sailor and mother because they lack of food?"
you know how its impossible for a human to eat his own kind while there are other choices of food, for example the tons of fish in the ocean?
not even mentioning the biscuits on the boat.
if the situation has gone that bad that the cook starve so badly that he has to eat human flesh, how come Pi, a little boy can even survive without having any food?
moreover, will a man that gone insane and eat almost every living thing on boat suddenly realized his sin and let someone kill him without fighting back? thats totally ridiculous.
the 2nd story sounds totally irrational to me.

70Booksloth
Dez 16, 2012, 10:11am

You do all know that both stories are fiction?

71Idrisguitar
Editado: Dez 16, 2012, 10:38am

*Covers both ears*

I can't hear you Booksloth.

72Booksloth
Dez 16, 2012, 10:59am

:-)

73Jman8910
Dez 19, 2012, 2:25pm

I think that the story with the animals is so much more interesting, but the story with the humans and Pi having his "Inner Tiger" unleashed is very philosophical. I have to say, though, that the animal one is my favorite by far.

Amazing Job Yann Martel !

74Oholibamah
Jan 3, 2013, 8:48pm

I am struggling against accepting the 2nd story as true because I so badly want to believe the 1st. However, the part that keeps nagging at me is that Pi is a religious, spiritual person. If his purpose in telling the first story is to show that people want to believe a beautiful story that is comforting over the hard "facts", then that is him saying that God is not reality and that people choose religion over "fact" for no reason other than that it is comforting. That doesn't fit with his character, especially since there is no evidence that Pi abandoned God during his journey. It is far more likely that Pi, a believer of God, also believes in the beautiful story, and is admonishing those who deny God because he is "unrealistic".

Making up a story to prove a point doesn't match his character. A story itself is not a lie, but his vehement defense of the first story despite the agents' counter arguments does, IMO, amount to lying. Everything about Pi's interview at the end smells of "if you don't want to believe the truth (God), then that's your choice. I will provide the exact same information in a way that you can understand (Science. Fact.)." That, to me, sounds more like the lie.

While the FACTS of the first story seem crazy, (and this could be due to the story being largely truncated), the time frame of the second story just seems sloppy. Pi survived in the ocean for 220-something days despite most of his rations being gobbled up by the Cook? Why was the "Hyena"/"French Cook" two separate characters in the first story, but melded into 1 in the second? If the animals were an allegory, why did he not seem that upset (or at least not murdered-Mother-levels of upset) when Orange Juice was murdered? Surely the emotions felt would have been consistent between the two versions if allegory was his purpose.

I am forced to believe that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I can accept that Pi defeated a hyena, shared a boat with an orangutang and a zebra, survived all alone for months on a boat, and found reprieve on an island for a short time. But Richard Parker and the actual details of the island are likely metaphors for Pi's inner will to survive (Parker) and his desire to find something he can call home (the Island) which was not possible, forcing him to leave. His own reality may not be 100% fact: maybe RP really DID fall off the boat as Pi suspected. It took a couple days for him to actually see him again. Was he projecting an image of his own internal Savage? I just can't see him spinning a complete tale to cope with his trauma, but can accept that details were exaggerated or imagined.

75IanBradbury
Editado: Jan 9, 2013, 4:36pm

I think the genius element of this book/film is that it could be either. The scenarios are:

(1) 'That is the way it is with God' represents how it is easier to believe the fictional story (religion), because the reality is too harsh. (they preferred the 1st story)

or

(2) 'That is the way it is with God', represents the fact that if you do not have a leap of faith that something which is unfamiliar to you (as he says, involving places and situations that are unfamiliar) is possible, you will never find it. Which is something that all mystics and spiritual masters say.

There is evidence on both sides and I believe it is skillfully left open. In the film Pi says 'there is doubt on every floor' when talking about the house of faith. So he leaves enough doubt on both sides to leave it open.

Very clever and has left me thinking.

76RisingLemur
Fev 11, 2013, 11:49pm

I've read around the web for a while now and i think there are some short sights from what i see YM wrote it to be a test of whether you believe in religion, as he himself is one of the people who think this story can make you believe in God (as the writer character which in essence is himself does). However he also seems self-aware he wrote it in a way to test because their are arguments on each side.

I believe the book lends itself to the animal story being real. As Pi seems firm to his story but the investigators don't believe him. He defends his story with facts of his own like the bananas floating, the animals escaping zoos and the bones in the lifeboat.

His crafting of the second story also seems oddly disjunctive within the context. Pi after all takes a few moments before telling it making me think he was making it up. The second story starts with allegories but then essentially fails to wrap them up. There are holes and the island serves no real metaphor. It's like he started and gave up to match everything up, which seems to me to be something more prone from agitation. However do remember how he ends the second story, turning to God to survive.

I feel this is important to the "it goes with God" line. The investigators here are pre-disposed to not believe his first story, when he asks which they prefer, when they say the first is a better story, they also mean to say "but we don't believe it." Pi makes the comment of so it goes with God on how people see religion but it also should be taken in with the end of the second story.

To people who agree with the author's viewpoint of his own stance, the first story is about the leap of faith and the second story is just blindly ignoring it.

However the heavy implications to defend Pi is telling the truth adds a whole new element to the story. Because this means you can see it in another light. When Pi says "and so it goes with God" he could also be referring to God as in the part of his second story, which makes it, the God story is a better "story" but not what i believe. I think a lot of people overlook the placement of that line but i think it's critical because of how he ends the second story.

In this new light the facts (while in an outlandish context) are on the side of story 1, once again the faith to believe is present, but now it's on the side of people who want facts and the religious side of things is now story 2. As many anti-theists make claims people fall back on religion, so in this case the investigators like story 2 because it falls back on their believes without taking a leap of faith to believe what is in front of your eyes.

This a long way of saying i pretty much agree with #75. The story is what you want to make out of it. Both arguments i just gave are completely defensible as they can be interpreted as that.

However in closing i do firmly believe the first story is the truth and i personally agree to the theory that you need the leap of faith to believe in the first story but i tend to see it because the facts of the floating bananas, Pi's quick change, etc lead me to it. So i essence the story doesn't make me believe in God like the author character or the person who opens up does, but i can get a message from it.

Overall i think that is what the true point of the novel, to get people thinking on where they stand. Look in and see which side you are on.

Because if you believe the second story is reality, you have a whole new onslaught of those type of situations. Do you believe the second story as science over religion in the first story, or do you believe the second story because your brain rules the common sense is the truth (which this station puts you in the same shoes as the investigators at first)

I think the author wants you to think the animal story is true as with the evidence and all the articles seem to me to indicate he sees it as the religious mirror where it can make people believe in God. I read in an article he said the island is meant to throw you off to question whether it's real so you think when the second story comes along, but in the end even the investigators convert to that story, so i feel confident in my assessment.

However i believe there is this other agent in the air that the film version decided to go with. I see a lot of schools seem to lecture teach instead of discussion and a lot of this lends to the theory that "you should believe the better story'. I don't subscribe to that theory at all, the movie's ending geared me the wrong way making me feel like they made the second story to be the one you are supposed to go with, since there is no defense and Pi is in tears telling it when in the book he's seems quite defensive telling it. They also move the so it goes with god line to now be done with the author that loses the context that investigators have

I feel because of this a lot of people are taking away that the story is telling you believe in the first story and God because they are better story, regardless of facts. I beat my head when this was taught to me in school and when i see it come from the mouths of people who have seen the film, as quite frankly i don't agree at all with it.

77angiecramer
Editado: Mar 31, 2013, 4:38pm

Pi asks "which version do you PREFER". I believe both stories are true. One describes his PHYSICAL experience of evil, self-condemnation, grief & despair. Pi described the chef as "an evil man who brought out the evil in me", & he said, "you'll never know what you're capable of until you're really hungry". The other story describes his SPIRITUAL journey of faith, protection, provision, forgiveness, hope & rescue. Pi said, "You'll never know the strength of your faith until it's been tested". His faith in God gave him the strength to survive, live with himself, forgive himself, leave the past behind & move on to live a happy, fulfilling life. Pi's mother told him that science tells us about the world, but religion tells us about the heart. I like to think that Pi gained an understanding of the gospel when he experienced forgiveness.

78krazy4katz
Editado: Mar 31, 2013, 5:34pm

Thank you so much for all your insights. I clearly need to read this book again, as you have brought up so many perspectives that I would like to experience. I am amazed that it has been 4 years!

Best wishes to all,

k4k

79stellarexplorer
Editado: Abr 9, 2013, 11:57pm

>60 Booksloth: Booksloth's citation of the actual Richard Parker case of 1884 makes for fascinating reading.

Also almost defying credulity is the reference in that citation to Poe's 1838 novel The Narrative of Arthur Gordon Pym of Nantucket, which, fully 46 years earlier, features a character, Richard Parker, who is killed by starving sailors at sea.

80jplolo
Jun 24, 2014, 7:00am

I love that you asked this question. When I first read the book, it was obvious to me that the animals were the true story, with perhaps some mania and story altering here and there due to dehydration, starvation, and heat stroke. But after speaking with others about it, I couldn't believe how many people were so quick to believe the other story. I just was baffled. It got me feeling quite hopeless. Not one person realistically believed in the animal story. Why is it so impossible to believe the first story told when you have a depressing, people murdering, lonely suffering tale to replace it? I turned this question into a question about humanity, once in a while shedding my conclusions... trying to remind myself that it's just a story. And who's to say we shouldn't first believe the most practical version first? Me, trying to tell myself that doesn't mean anything negative about us as a whole. It just hurts a little to think about it, that's all. Maybe I just have a little more of a empathetic relation to animals and so I found my connection there.

81jplolo
Jun 24, 2014, 7:03am

I love your recall of the clues and the mentioning of them in detail. I now remember I had felt there were clues in his wording as well when I read the book. I am very satisfied someone else had noticed them as well.

82zjakkelien
Jun 24, 2014, 5:41pm

Lovely thread, this. I completely believed the animal version of the story, until a friend told me that the other version was true. Then I started believing that that was probably what the reader was supposed to think, but I didn't like it, so I sort of still want to believe the animal version, but deep down I think it's probably the other one that's true. I'm glad to see so many reasons her to justify believing in the animal version...