Marquis de Sade

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Marquis de Sade

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1PhoenixTerran
Ago 19, 2008, 2:33 pm

So...has anyone read any of his work? Looking for recommendations on where to start. Thanks!

2LolaWalser
Ago 19, 2008, 7:39 pm

First, it is good to have some idea about what Sade isn't. He isn't sexy, he isn't about sexuality, of any kind, or even sex. The rampant sexual action in his books (which is usually the only kind of action, accompanied or succeeded by torture and murder) is instrumental, the way Sade affirmed, argued and defended his philosophy. His libertines use licence in order to "practice" liberty, to be free. Sade is intolerant of any authority, of any rule imposed outside of what he considers the "natural" rule--the necessity to follow our instincts and assuage our desires, by any means and any cost (including the libertines' own lives). He himself liked to think that his books "cost his readers sperm", and I dare say those into scat and snuff are well served by his imagery. But he's a writer who makes one think, not feel.

For a first-timer of general interest, I'd recommend "Philosophy in the boudoir". It has the advantage of being not too long, showcasing most of Sade's preferred perversions, and offering a solid course in his philosophy, both declamatory and through practical application of said perversions. If you're still interested in him after that, it hardly matters where you go next; personally I have a weakness for "Juliette" and the three versions of Justine (The misfortunes of virtue; Justine or the misfortunes of virtue, and The new Justine). Finally, his best book is without doubt "The 120 days of Sodom", but it's the kind of text too many abandon too soon, it may be better to approach it after you get some hang on him.

3PhoenixTerran
Ago 20, 2008, 2:44 pm

Great response, Lola! Thanks!

4CliffordDorset
Editado: Mar 4, 2009, 4:29 am

I may be too late to help here, but although I cannot but mostly agree with LolaWalser here, I'd suggest reading the works at the same time as reading Angela Carter's The Sadeian Woman. I tried the works themselves in my youth, in search of erotic sensation, but was quickly nauseated, but Carter gave me a context, both historical and sociological, that I found invaluable, changing my perspective completely.

P.S. Now I've discovered how to edit I'm removing a later (corrective) comment.

5PhoenixTerran
Mar 3, 2009, 9:06 am

Thanks for the recommendation!

6CliffordDorset
Mar 3, 2009, 9:21 am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

7PortiaLong
Editado: Mar 3, 2009, 11:45 pm

I have Justine in my library (one of 5 books tagged "OMG WTF"). I have to say - reading this made me COMPLETLY DISINTERESTED in reading anything else by de Sade. I keep it for "historical relevance" reasons but if I ever pick it up (say, to move it to a different shelf) I feel the need (this may be the OCD) to wash my hands.

Disturbing and nauseating, in a "no redeaming characteristics" sort of way. I also have it tagged
"sex" - but- NOT sexy, NOT erotic, NOT any goodness at all - mainly terrifically, awfully, disgusting...the bad kind (like reading about child-rapists and thinking to yourself "THAT is why there should be a Death Penalty"...)

PS. Maybe I have to read the book recommended in #4 to gain some perspective but the "swap" stats aren't really in my favor...

8CliffordDorset
Mar 4, 2009, 4:26 am

I sympathise completely with PortiaLong! I remember at my first attempts being reassured about my particular 'turn-ons', that however unacceptable they may seem to vanilla folks (or those with other less-usual tastes) that 'At least I can say there are lengths even I wouldn't go to!'

9LolaWalser
Mar 4, 2009, 10:53 am

Regarding the secondary literature, my preference (generally, but especially in the case of Sade) would be to read him first alone, without explicatory or critical chatter. One deserves to be confronted with this phenomenon without the inevitable dilution and influence of others' views (of which there is an ocean, some of it good, a lot of it execrable. The best commentators of Sade are French--and some of the worst, alas.)

Sade is an event--live it. Afterwards, then, yes, a dialogue, debate, comment, thinking and rethinking is, I'd say, necessary.

Again at this later stage, all recommendations depend on whether one wishes, and how intensely, to try to understand him. While some shorter introductions may suffice for the more casual reader, I would recommend as a first necessity a good biography. Sade's texts are crucially intervowen with his life--given the fact of his long imprisonments, you could say they replaced his life. Unfortunately, his best biography to date (Pauvert's) hasn't been translated into English; in it's place I suppose the Lever (abridged in the English edition) would do.

Then, with the biography and acquaintance of the primary texts in place, one would turn to Sadeians--a motley crew, often creepier than the divine marquis himself... :)

10PhoenixTerran
Mar 4, 2009, 11:07 am

I picked up a copy of Justine, Philosophy in the Bedroom, and Other Writings, though I haven't read any of it yet. I'm not sure which version of Justine it has--I'll have to look at it more carefully when I get home. Can't remember what the "Other Writings" are off the top of my head.

The Marquis de Sade: A Life by Neil Schaeffer is the biography available at my local library.

11CliffordDorset
Mar 4, 2009, 1:07 pm

The problem with going straight to the evidence - the literature - is that the time and culture separations make it difficult if not impossible to assess it dispassionately. I do think de Sade's excesses make some form of context advisable. Actually more in his case, rather than less!

12Marvin_Moss
Jul 17, 2009, 7:28 pm

Yeas you should be starting with Justine and Juliette, but I must warn you, Sade was into Scat and Necrophilia among other weird stuff, so if you don't like those subjects better find something else to read.

13colouroflife
Set 4, 2009, 5:31 am

hmm sorry but you are too ignorant.you even dont have any clue who sade is.there is not any metaphor in his books as he said.

Lola you are weird.he liked to torture women children(8-12 age) and killed a few of them.i think you are masochist or something like that

14bergs47
Nov 27, 2009, 6:33 am

I like Portia have not seen my copy for years and I only got it because it was banned in my country and anything banned had to be had.