Suntup Editions Books (3)

É uma continuação do tópico Suntup Editions Books (2).

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Suntup Editions Books (3)

Jul 26, 8:14 pm

Continued as a new thread a sprevious thread was becoming cumbersome in length.

Jul 26, 10:33 pm

You didn’t let it hit 1000 for the 2nd time!

Jul 27, 10:59 am

Continuing from here:

All of Lyra’s books have a portion allocated to rights holders and a portion for public sale. So it doesn’t create, at least in its entirety, the issues with Suntup. Also, rights are not transferable, so if someone doesn’t want the books anymore, there’s no possibility for a last ditch sale at a premium for the rights.

Jul 27, 11:26 am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Jul 27, 5:05 pm

>4 AlexBookshelfFrog:

Some will also buy to speculate / re-sell. It really paid off for a while with regard to Suntup, not so much recently. FOMO is another factor. But yes, there are people who buy books they don't want to keep their right to buy future titles from Suntup. It's the same with some of the book clubs that publish their own special editions, where you have to be a subscriber (and often get books you don't want) in order to have the right to buy books you do want and which often sell out before non-subscribers get a chance to buy them. It's really not my kind of system (I prefer how Folio Society, Areté and others work), but it clearly pays off for some publishers.

Jul 28, 3:57 am

Exorcist I think was a record AE sell out, but I know this was at the height of popularity and I know quite a few people bought multiple copies as it was flying our the door expecting to flip at a decent profit, but it didn't really happen and they mostly sold at cosy or below.

Ago 1, 4:40 am

I saw too late that the thread continues here - I just copied my comment from the old threat:

Does anyone have an idea what the "to be announced in August" book by Suntup might be? A book about a book sounds good and I'm starting to collect books like that - but since it is really expensive I'm not sure I can make the decision to buy within minutes...

So anyone who might have a clue or just a good guess, I would really appreciate it! Thanks!

Ago 1, 7:25 am

>7 Thenorthneverforgets: I remember one press was working on The Club Dumas, so this might be it.

Ago 1, 7:37 am

Centipede's about to release The Club Dumas so I was also guessing that since these publishers often seem to be circling the same titles at the same time.

Ago 1, 7:50 am

>8 Shadekeep: Thanks, this is really helpful, now I can still read it and decide if I like it! :)

Ago 1, 7:51 am

>9 LeBacon: Thank you! I guess this might be it then. :)

Ago 1, 7:58 am

>9 LeBacon: That was it. I couldn't recall if it was the recent Centipede or Suntup newsletter, though the Suntup one is usually more about clues than actual titles. And it does make sense that this might be an overlap release from both.

I suppose The Name of the Rose might qualify as well.

Ago 1, 10:05 am

I believe there are many folks that expect the book to be Winterset Hollow.

Ago 1, 10:51 am

On second read, it likely isn't The Club Dumas. The announcement mentions the book is "the author’s debut novel", and that is El húsar (The Hungarian Soldier) for Arturo Pérez-Reverte. Also, it seems likely there would have been more mentions as to the book's praise and its adaptation as a movie (The Ninth Gate).

The Name of the Rose apparently is a debut novel, so is still in the running, but I suspect it likewise would have more prominent praise and the movie adaptation mentioned as well. So probably not that either.

Ago 1, 11:01 am

>14 Shadekeep:
The August selection is signed by the author, so Name of the Rose is out of the running. Umberto Eco died in 2016.

Ago 1, 11:06 am

>15 jroger1: That would seem to clinch it, yes. So odds are it's a less well-known work, like the Ahlborn novels they produce.

Ago 1, 2:34 pm

>13 HowardEriksonWolfe: I'm not familiar with the novel, although it has fabulous reviews online. Sounds very promising.

Ago 1, 3:28 pm

House of leaves?

Ago 1, 7:04 pm

house of leaves would be insane i really hope that is it. ive never read winterset hollow but seems worth reading. it seems like the latter is what most people think but i hope its HoL

Editado: Ago 1, 11:13 pm

>7 Thenorthneverforgets: Copying my answer to you from the old thread. ;)

The consensus, as mentioned above, is that it's going to be Winterset Hollow.

Editado: Ago 2, 2:36 am

I dont think that Winterset Hollow is an dark and twisted fantasy 😅

Edit: maybe it is.. 🤯

Ago 2, 5:53 am

Wow, thank you guys! Never heard of Winterset Hollow, I will look into it and maybe house of leaves too.

Editado: Ago 2, 7:52 am

>22 Thenorthneverforgets: "Never heard of Winterset Hollow"...

Same. Never heard of House of Leaves either but looking it up and seeing a flip through of the unusual formatting is intriguing.

I sincerely hope Suntup does more titles like these instead of leaning so heavily on the titles with famous film adaptations. These ideas are fresher and more exciting. I don't want a book shelf that looks like my blu ray shelf.

Ago 3, 2:56 am

>23 LeBacon: House of leaves reminds me of "S." by J.J. Abrams - this was also a great book, with different subplots and lots of extra material. Took me a lot of time to get through, but then I immediately read it a second time.

Ago 3, 3:35 pm


1: Reading announcement schedule
2: Finding the name Diana Gabaldon "This book about a book is the author’s debut novel, a dark and twisted fantasy that has been praised by the likes of Diana Gabaldon"
3: Typing Diana Gabaldon / Jonathan Edward Durham
4: Reading this `Diana Gabaldon quoted this novel as being “Astonishingly powerful and multilayered”.
5: Winterset Hollow it is then, that and the consensus mentioned by >20 whytewolf1: normally means intel
6: Case closed. It was aliens all along.
7: Goes to the bar alone to drink beer and to smoke, well, a smoke, and home alone in the rain, wondering what next case would be ..

Ago 3, 3:55 pm

>25 Pellias:

Am I only the person that would prefer if publishers just tell us what they are going to publish instead of a guessing game?

Ago 3, 6:09 pm

>26 astropi: So, can't take the heat eh kid. (Joking)

We (I) like a good mystery (underling good though). Liked the videos at start of suntup, to much time to make though. Understandable.
Case closed, nothing more to see here. Back to everyday business.

Ago 7, 1:25 pm

William Friedkin just passed away. The Suntup deluxe editions of The Exorcist are probably among his last signed items now.

Editado: Ago 17, 12:06 pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Ago 17, 12:10 pm

>13 HowardEriksonWolfe: And you, along with other members, are correct!

Ago 17, 12:14 pm

What do you guys think ? I love the numbered 😊

Ago 17, 12:26 pm

I think they all look great. I like seeing them do horror that has a literary bend. I'm not familiar with this novel but I am excited to read it, it seems like it's pretty twisted but also really well written. I don't mind pulpy horror, but when Suntup does horror that's usually what they do, I was really excited for them to do Fowles (not really horror but in the ballpark) because he's a brilliant writer. Centipede does a lot of pulpy stuff, which is cool, but I definitely prefer the more literary examples. House of Leaves would've also been extremely exciting but I think this is a great choice, and The Last Unicorn will wrap this quarter up nicely.

Ago 17, 12:31 pm

>31 Ragnaroek: The artwork is superb. The book itself doesn't interest me, but it's bound to appeal to a fair number of folks. How quickly it sells out will be an interesting barometer.

Editado: Ago 17, 12:44 pm

Sad it's not letterpress 🫠
Yeah. Now just Last Unicorn is left and we will get more clues to be excited about 😁
I wonder if it will be American Gods 😄

Ago 17, 2:14 pm

>34 Ragnaroek: I did not make the waitlist for American Gods, but I vaguely remember hearing it was targeting a 2024 release.

Editado: Ago 17, 2:57 pm

>35 NathanOv:
Oh okay. If you have rights you dont need the waitlist though

Ago 17, 3:33 pm

>36 Ragnaroek: Ah, let me clarify. For this book in particular, they gathered early interest for the Artist (or collectors) edition due to its popularity.

Normal rights should still apply to Numbered and Lettered.

Editado: Ago 17, 3:52 pm

>37 NathanOv:
Yes, Artist ist available for the signed people.
Funny if they do 1000 Artist/Classic, how much numbered then ? 400 ?450?

Iam excited for the hellbound heart

Ago 17, 3:55 pm

Ah, I lost the newsletter email in a bit of overzealous cleaning. Did they confirm any other titles besides the new release? Most especially, does The Hellbound Heart have a confirmation and release date?

Ago 17, 5:20 pm

I ordered a copy of the Classic edition. The only Suntup I own is Blackwater, with Life of Pi preordered. Ordered Winterset Hollow half on a whim. Looking forward to it!

Ago 17, 5:27 pm

An author and illustrator signed edition with beautiful commissioned artwork for $150 delivered = WIN for all of us :)

Ago 17, 6:04 pm

79 left of classic, good to see this selling out, thats much faster than i thought.

Ago 17, 7:57 pm

Going going and...

Editado: Ago 17, 8:15 pm

>31 Ragnaroek: The numbered is my favorite as well! It looks great.

>43 astropi: Aaaand it's gone.

Ago 17, 8:35 pm

Nice to see enthusiasm for a title that doesn't have a big pop culture tie-in. Hopefully Suntup is encouraged to take on more lesser known titles.

Ago 17, 9:52 pm

>43 astropi: Wow, that did go in a hurry! I agree with LeBacon, it's a healthy sign for less canonical works to get a look in.

Editado: Ago 18, 2:20 am

Only the numbered left then 😄

The Artist/Classic Version sold faster then Psycho 🤯

1.The Amythville Horror + 2.Ira Levins Stepford wives followed by 3.The Outsider are three of Suntups not so famous titles I would say.

1. I dont like the design of the numbered
2. I like Ira Levin, but iam not sure about this book, anyone read it ?
3. I cant decide wheather I will like the story, so same as 2.

Ago 18, 8:32 am

>47 Ragnaroek: Amityville was a hugely successful book when it came out, but is probably best known now for the whole franchise, including multiple movies and derivatives. Stepford is almost certainly better known for the film now, same for Rosemary's Baby, also by Ira Levin, though both books sold very well too.

It's nice to see Suntup mixing in non-filmic titles in the current release cycle, and good to see those selling well. My first purchase from them was Blackwater, and I welcome more of that kind of thing.

Ago 18, 9:13 am

>43 astropi: Looks like this one might buck the trend and finally not be a book that’s available for 30-50% of retail later on.

Ago 18, 10:39 am

Think the author of Winterset tweeted about the book upon announcement. Lower 500 limitation might be about right.
I like Amitville Horror but I thought the numbered was just dull and unimaginative. Might pick up an AE if I can get one less than cost once they have shipped.

Ago 18, 12:16 pm

>48 Shadekeep:
I didnt knew that, I just looked at the open stock 😁

Blackwater was a pass for me. It should have been two volumes. 🥲

Ago 18, 12:19 pm

>49 What_What: why should the price get lower for an Book that has no rights and people can freely decide wheather or not to buy it.

An signed edition by the Author is always a good thing in my opinion.

Ago 18, 12:19 pm

>50 Schlermie: exactly my thoughts.
Why should it get cheaper ?

Ago 18, 12:59 pm

Some AEs might be available cheaper after publication. Keep in mind that an AE is not necessarily the same thing as Suntup's "Classic Edition". The differences thus far appear to be that the CE is signed by the author (which I think is fabulous) and much lower limitation number (500 vs 750). Thus some of the less popular AE may be found below publication cost, although these tend to be AEs that have a high limitation (750 or 1000) and not a very popular book (such as Johnny Got His Gun). Overall, I would say this is certainly an exception rather than a rule, and most any book that sells out pre-publication you will not find for sale less than publication cost. In fact, it won't surprise me if the Classic Edition of Pi and Winterset sell for significantly more.

Ago 20, 6:58 am

>53 Ragnaroek: I see some sell cheaper as people decide they no longer really want it or want to shift books to buy something else. The fact that there are usually some available at retail still directly from the publisher means they have to sell for less if they want to sell them. Also international shipping is so ridiculous now when people over hear have then in hand the lower shipping brings the price way down for me compared with getting directly from the publisher. There are a couple of sellers over here who I believe have the lifetime subscription so get copies of the AE and always sell them on. If I can't get it cheaper I just won't buy it as it's not a book I would pay $200 for (inc shipping). For example Godfather AE with cheapest international shipping it would cost me $220. Could have got one sealed from a UK seller for $134 with next day shipping.

Editado: Ago 20, 8:12 am

Anyone knows if someone on Facebook wanna sell:
Psycho numbered
Godfather numbered
Schindlers Ark numbered
I tryed to join the group now several times, but I get not accepted 😕

Ago 20, 8:54 am

Haven't seen any of those listed lately. Last Godfather numbered I saw was for sale at $699 and don't think it sold. That was listed by a Kyle Davis.

Ago 20, 11:14 pm

>57 Schlermie: I think that was probably one desperate seller. EBay shows copies sold at $800 and $900.

Editado: Ago 21, 10:25 am

>56 Ragnaroek: There’s indeed someone who tries to offload his numbered Psycho. His price is $410 shipped in the US. He keeps lowering the price once in a while.

He also just sold a numbered Winterset Hollow for $400 shipped (thus lower than retail shipping included). And there are 1 or 2 copies sitting at around $410-$420 unsold. So I’m sure we’ll be able to pick up this book below retail price like the majority of Suntup’s numbered, on the FB group at least (eBay prices are usually way higher, but they can sit there unsold for a good while also).

>58 What_What: But taking into account eBay fees, the $699 from FB will net more money to the seller than the $800 one from eBay. The $900 sale from eBay will of course net more money overall though.

Ago 21, 11:43 am

>59 Nerevarine: Yep, I get that. At the end of the day the selling price is the price that someone was willing to pay, however. That the net proceeds are are less due to eBay fees is a negotiation point, but doesn’t lower the market value.

For fancy auction houses, a $10,000 book costs the buyer $13,000, and that’s usually the way the valuation is estimated when we discuss it here. If we used the net proceeds approach, instead of valuing it at $13,000, it would likely be closer to maybe $8,000k or whatever the seller received after the auction house took their cut from the other side of the transaction.

Ago 21, 11:53 am

>58 What_What: I agree. And frankly, it seems very unlikely that an edition of such a popular book (and film) fully bound in nice leather, printed letterpress, and signed by Francis Ford Coppola will sink in value, as some of the more obscure titles and questionable productions have.

Editado: Ago 21, 12:12 pm

>60 What_What: Absolutely, I just think that people on the FB group are more price sensitive than on eBay (because the pool of potential buyer is so much higher on eBay).

So in the end of the day, I really doubt the person on FB could have gotten away with selling a $800-$900 Godfather numbered. People there usually know better (and I say usually, because I sometimes see sale prices there that makes me scratch my head and ask myself what the buyer was thinking. But I bet they’re more often than not « new » members that have less understanding of how things usually go for Suntup’s value).

Ago 21, 1:59 pm

>62 Nerevarine: Agreed there’s definitely a disconnect between prices in the group and on eBay sometimes.

Editado: Ago 21, 3:02 pm

>61 whytewolf1:
That sounds interesting. What so you exactly mean with "as some of the more obscure titles and questionable productions have" ?
Which titles are meant by this quote ?

I dont know why anyone wanna dumb Godfather or Psycho numbered tbh. Is there anything wrong with the production quality at Suntup ?
Both titles are Letterpress and beautiful bound with nice illustrations.
Suntup is really special...
I never have seen titles from other fine press publishers that get dumbed before they even got produced and shipped. And even after the shipping, those titles normaly won't get dumbed for an extremely lower price then the publication price.

Something isn't right with Suntup. There has to be. It can't be only the right system, can it ?

Ago 21, 4:07 pm

>64 Ragnaroek: Something isn't right with Suntup. There has to be. It can't be only the right system, can it ?

Not exactly sure what you're asking - but here are my thoughts as someone that has followed and purchased from Suntup since their second publication. Suntup quickly became very popular and had a big social media following (apparently mostly on facebook - I never joined so can't speak to that, although second-hand reports seem to conclude it was a rather "toxic" environment). Their was very serious FOMO ("fear of missing out") and basically Suntup books sold out in just a few minutes. As has become apparent, many people purchased Suntup because they were sure all the books were going to be worth far more than retail. However, clearly that's not the case. Add to that the fact that Suntup has an ambitious publication goal of a new book each month, and basically people were facing "burnout" and/or realizing that their Suntup investments were not going to be able to be flipped for big bucks. Some Suntup patrons have been unloading their books - some sell for a sizable profit while others sell for around retail, and still a few others below retail -- to a certain degree I address this in this post:

In terms of quality, I think Suntup produces high-quality books at an exceptional price, especially when looking at their letterpress editions. Some people might argue (and have argued) that Suntup is not in the same league as say Barbarian Press. Well, I would argue that Barbarian Press is very different and appeals to a much smaller niche. BP's upcoming book is "Bordering on the Sublime: Ornamental Typography at the Curwen Press". Like it sounds, it's a letterpress book about a letterpress press. There are people in this group that go gaga over such works, and more power to them. That said, many more people are not interested in such works, and would far rather see works such as Winterset Hollow and other books that Suntup is producing. And as for price, the letterpress printed "Classic Edition" of Hollow was $135. The Barbarian Press forthcoming volume on the Curwen Press typography will start at over $1800 for the 250-page book and the most expensive edition will be around $3700 (although on their webpage they warn that prices may rise). Again, more power to people that can afford BP and enjoy it. I'm sure the hand-set type and hand-made paper are wonderful. However, the subject matter does not appeal to me, and the price is far beyond my price point. At the end of the day, I would much rather have a Suntup edition of an acclaimed novel than a beautifully-bound edition of something I just do not care about. Again, this is all my opinion, I'm not trying to belittle those that love such niche works - there's a market for everyone. However, saying all that, I feel that sometimes people try to compare apples to meatloaf, and it's not always fair for either Suntup nor Barbarian Press (the latter being just an example).

At the end of the day I also agree that the right's system can be frustrating. But, I'm certainly very thankful for the work that Suntup does and I feel that dollar-for-dollar they give the community such a great return! The last two letterpress books are signed by the author and artist and were under $200 each, which is amazing.

Ago 21, 4:24 pm

>65 astropi: I don’t want to interfere, but just to say that Hollow isn’t printed letterpressed in any editions.

Ago 21, 4:29 pm

>64 Ragnaroek: There are a good many numbered editions (though not necessarily a majority) that sell for far below retail, sometimes as little as 40-50% of retail, because the titles aren't very popular relative to the price and limitation of the edition, or the design and quality of the edition (the production) was not well received. Some examples of these numbered editions would be The Auctioneer, Butcher Boy, Imajica, Replay, The Outsiders, The Collector, and The Wolfen.

Ago 21, 4:32 pm

>65 astropi:
I only ask because I often read here that people are literally dumbing their numbered editions, just to hold rights and I found some data from Collectiblebookvault and the median value of alot of publications is really really low. And since nearly every Suntup publication is sold out in an couple of days I just wondered...

Thank you for youre time and for the insight on this topic. 🙏

Ago 21, 5:07 pm

>67 whytewolf1: thank you 🙏👍

Ago 21, 6:11 pm

>66 Nerevarine: Yes, thanks for the clarification :)
I meant to say that Psycho and Pi were both printed letterpress.

Ago 21, 6:28 pm

>64 Ragnaroek: Just repeating what other posters have said, I have been impressed with the books I own from Suntup. However I wouldn’t buy directly as there still seems an ability to purchase works discounted from the Facebook group (the vast majority, even lettered seems to now be offered). However this isn’t reflective of poor quality.

Ago 21, 7:04 pm

>71 DMulvee: if you could give me the Admin name I could write him an mail .
I think iam IP banned , atleast blocked, he thought iam an bot maybe...
I'm not a member of the group ...

Ago 21, 7:50 pm

>70 astropi:
PI is one of the most gorgeous numbered edition of this year and Its finally an full leather binding again.

Ago 21, 8:37 pm

>65 astropi: Well said. And I say this as someone who collects both Suntup and books of typographic ornaments.

>67 whytewolf1: Maybe there's backstock of Imajica among resellers now, I haven't checked since I finally obtained it. But when I was looking it was hard to find and significantly marked up. The other titles you mention are definitely ones I see a surfeit of however.

Ago 21, 8:48 pm

>65 astropi: You are right that comparing Barbarian Press and Suntup Editions is apples and meatloaf. This forum increasingly is dedicated to the discussion of books which most would not even consider fine press.

Ago 21, 9:05 pm

>75 edkennedy: I would say that Suntup’s upper and lower tiers are to fine press as the works of the Limited Editions Club and Heritage Press were when published in conjunction.

Not all of their publications follow fine press production values, and you’d only compare a handful of their highest quality works to other publishers, but their work certainly achieves higher levels than trade publishers and most modern small presses.

Editado: Ago 22, 12:56 am

For many here (forum) it's only Fine Press , when Letterpress printed, but what about the other parts of the book ?
If I print letterpress and glue the pages together in an kind of paperback I personaly wouldn't call it fine press production 😄

I love an good leather-bound book where you dont see the gap between spine and sewn pages.(there is an name for that, but I cant remember)

Ago 22, 2:25 am

>77 Ragnaroek: You would be wrong in many cases.

The fact that this forum is onto its third discussion topic of Suntup Editions, yet never touches on acknowledged masters of the craft such as Russell Maret or Claire Van Vliet, goes to show how meaningless the term "fine press" has become. To each their own, but I do wish there was a discussion forum where craft and quality were what sparked interest rather than marketing and collectability.

Ago 22, 4:48 am

>78 edkennedy: This isn’t surprising. If you purchase an older title you might be excited however others may have had that for years, and so there isn’t a shared sense of excitement. Suntup publishes 12 titles a year with games to guess the titles, then a long period to wait after pre-ordering before the delivery itself. These all create talking points.
Secondly the price point makes it more accessible. There are at least 750 copies of each title (when summing all tiers) and so even if only 5% of purchasers wish to discuss the work this creates chatter. If a publisher creates fewer copies there will be less interest. Lohengrin by Tudor Black Press is fantastic, but there were only 3 (!) special copies for sale, and 45 standard, which meant there was less talk about this.

Ago 22, 6:25 am

>78 edkennedy: I read some old Suntup post from Oct 2020. Really toxic stuff. People raging about the quality and prizes of the books. Alot of mentioning of no letterpress and that there will be no more quality then misery and the road had...

Editado: Ago 22, 6:58 am

>80 Ragnaroek: There was a time in Suntup’s release schedule where letterpressed books were far outnumbered by offset printed ones.

They’ve had a good mix of both since then, which is great imo.

Ago 22, 7:46 am

>78 edkennedy: Ultimately it's up to one to create the society they want to see, whether here or in the world at large. If there are discussions you feel should be happening but which aren't, start them. I participate in a number of fine press threads, and have even started a few dedicated to specific presses. The volume of discussion there varies, with some going quite high around release times. Ultimately I think that DMulvee has accurately capture the situation, in that there are simply fewer releases (and fewer owners) of many fine press works compared to those from higher volume publishers. I would love to see more fine press discussion as well, and I do what I can to stimulate it by touting new releases or great finds. But it falls to each of us to work towards making the place what we want it to be.

Ago 22, 9:01 am

>82 Shadekeep: wise words 🙂

Ago 22, 10:10 am

>77 Ragnaroek: “For many here (forum) it's only Fine Press when Letterpress printed, but what about the other parts of the book?”

We’ve had this discussion before and I don’t want to open the wounds again, but I continue to see posts that begin “not fine press, but …” when a book isn’t letterpress, thereby implying a single test for “fineness.”

But as there is no standard definition, members are free to have opinions about the matter. Mine happens to be that a “fine book” is attractive inside and out, durable for generations, comfortable to hold and read, with an easy-to-read text (however that is accomplished), a liberal sprinkling of quality illustrations, and a content that is worthy of such treatment. Others are free to establish their own criteria.

Ago 22, 1:46 pm

maybe someone can answer me this:
Is the chocolate factory book by Roland Dahl the one true version or is it the political corrected version. I bet its the unchanged version, but I'm not sure.

Thank you for youre time

Ago 22, 2:00 pm

>85 Ragnaroek: There's no "one true version," as Dahl himself edited the book post-publication, and made changes based on feedback from the NAACP among others resulting in what was the standard version, and likely author's preferred version of the text.

Editado: Ago 22, 2:30 pm

>86 NathanOv:
Wrote it very confusing.. sorry.
Indeed there is no "true version", but the world is going crazy, there are alot of headlines in the internet like this: POLITICALLY CORRECT BUT AT WHAT COST? ROALD DAHL’S BOOKS ARE BEING REWRITTEN.

You answered my question, so thanks alot 🙂👍

The question feels really dumb now i have read my question again. I can't imagine Paul would have chosen an "political correct" version for his book.

Ago 22, 2:42 pm

>87 Ragnaroek: It's a good idea to ignore any histrionic title written in ALL CAPS. You'll soon discover the text that follows isn't written to inform, but to inflame.

Ago 22, 2:51 pm

Having stated earlier that there are no issues of quality with Suntup books, I think I need to change this having seen photos today of the numbered Animal Farm. Some fans are arguing online that it is “natural”, but it definitely looks like something went wrong. I have vellum books and vellum isn’t always uniform, and there can be discolouration in parts, but there might need to be a buyer beware if anyone is purchasing this on the secondary market

Editado: Ago 22, 3:30 pm

>79 DMulvee: My concern is not about the quantity of discussion. The talk about Suntup seems limited to only discussion of limitations and marketing. Where is the discussion of the books themselves?

>82 Shadekeep: I will take your suggestion.

>89 DMulvee: My only Suntup edition so far is actually the numbered Animal Farm. The vellum is fine, however, I was disappointed to find the typography cramped and thick to the point of being difficult to read. After about 20 pages I gave up. Has this been others' experience? Who does the typesetting for Suntup?

Ago 22, 3:33 pm

So the anmial numbered isn't worth to have ?
It's one of my fav. books. Sadly i missed the opportunity to grab a copy

Ago 22, 3:44 pm

>90 edkennedy: I have the AE, but I believe the typesetting is the same for all three, so will speak to that. While I think the margins and point size are fine, the choice of Austin as the typeface introduces a bit of extra effort in reading. It has a lot of thick-and-thin line contrast for a body text and may be part of why you find it challenging. It would not have been my choice, because even though it does suit the feel the text, once you get above the Light typeface weight it's not the friendliest reading face for novels to me.

Ago 22, 4:45 pm

>91 Ragnaroek: I also have the AE of Animal Farm, and it's fabulous! In my mind, it really depends on whether you feel a more elaborate cover is worth the extra cost? The AE was $195 and the numbered was $595 -- both are printed letterpress and both are signed by the artist and both have the exact same illustrations.

Editado: Ago 22, 6:14 pm

Sadly I am returning my numbered copy. Several gripes but the main one being; the title on the spine is crooked and already rubbing off. Having purchased the AE and being so impressed with the quality, I was very disappointed that they chose to even ship me a copy with such an error.

Editado: Ago 22, 8:24 pm

>93 astropi:
True. The AE is fantastic

Editado: Ago 23, 1:28 am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Ago 23, 8:50 am

>94 BradleyM: I am anxiously waiting for my copy now. With all the production issues and defects, I hope my copy of it is fine. I will definitely be inclined to return it as well if it turns up with defects (especially if it is like those pictured in the fb group). I have a few of Suntup's numbered editions (Almost all letterpress) and have loved all of them so far. Though I do feel some have better print quality. Eg: Definitely prefer the print on Slaughterhouse Five compared to Handmaid's Tale. Fingers crossed on this one.

Ago 23, 1:27 pm

>94 BradleyM: I have had issues with some their numbereds, and always get the excuse that they don't have time to look at every copy for quality control. Unfortunately I think Suntup will just give you store credit instead of a refund. Hope I am wrong though.

Ago 23, 2:34 pm

>97 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: fingers crossed indeed.

Ago 23, 2:38 pm

>98 Undergroundman: there was a printed slip included that acknowledged there were some errors in binding/shipping and I could keep the book with a 25% discount towards a future book or return it for a full refund.

Ago 23, 2:57 pm

>94 BradleyM: Which edition are your returning?

Ago 23, 3:03 pm

>101 astropi: the numbered edition of Animal Farm.

Editado: Ago 23, 3:24 pm

My biggest criticism at Suntup is that we don't know where and who the book is binding. Sometimes they write bound by
Roger Grech in the UK for example...
I would like that for every book tbh.
Roger Grech is an Master in his Craft, so no worry about the quality at all .

Ago 23, 3:46 pm

>103 Ragnaroek: via google I found that the numbered edition was bound by an Edward Kranz of BOOKFORGE. There’s a video I would recommend watching where he goes into some detail about the book. Of note was him saying he’d never done a limitation near that large and several other binders had turned down the project due to the difficulty working with vellum.

Ago 23, 3:54 pm

>104 BradleyM:
Yeah. Then it was probably not a good choice to accept this contract 😃
I will search for the video 👍

Ago 23, 4:26 pm

>102 BradleyM: Sad -
That's the most beautiful edition of Animal Farm I have ever seen. To be fair, with such an elaborate binding there's obviously more that can go wrong than with the less elaborate AE. But, I'm not trying to excuse any imperfections. Curious if you don't mind sharing, are you thinking of keeping the book and getting the 25% off or returning it?

Ago 23, 4:38 pm

>106 astropi: I’ve decided to return it. The gold lettering on the spine is so off center that it would only aggravate me further to see it on my shelf. That aside, I took the book out of the slipcase a total of no more than six times. There was already noticeable wear to the boards. Though beautiful the paper used is far too fragile to be used on the outside of the book. The velour used on the inside of the slipcase seems to rub the boards when the book is removed. In short I can see the cover quickly becoming fuzzy.

Editado: Ago 23, 4:56 pm

>106 astropi: I honestly don’t see what’s so elaborate binding-wise. It’s paper covered boards with a vellum spine. We’ve seen vellum spine countless times before on fine editions. Heck, Suntup has published one before (I Am Legend) and it was much better handled.

From seeing the many photos on the FB group, it’s definitely a case of a binder that bit off more than he could chew. He completely butchered many copies, it’s really sad to see on some pictures. I don’t know how that passed quality assurance.

Edit: Owning a numbered IAL and loving the vellum spine, I almost preordered the numbered Animal Farm. But when I saw that the paper used was exactly the same as the one in the AE (which cost 3 times less IIRC), then the choice was easy for me.

Editado: Ago 23, 4:59 pm

>107 BradleyM: You spent little time noticing a design flaw, and yet Suntup had a prototype for much longer, and didn't notice a potential problem. Ridiculous.

Ago 23, 5:04 pm

>108 Nerevarine: It's much more elaborate compared to the AE is what I meant. I do think in principle it's a beautiful cover, but clearly BradleyM received a very defective copy so can't blame anyone for returning it.

Ago 23, 5:06 pm

>107 BradleyM: The paper used is Bugra, one of the most common in fine press binding today. The problem is likely that the slipcase is too tight. I have had no such problem on mine.

Ago 23, 5:09 pm

>110 astropi: Looks like the same exact binding to me, just with different materials.

Ago 23, 5:10 pm

>109 Undergroundman: i wonder if it was just assumed that suede and velour are the same. As mentioned by another, the paper and illustrations being exactly the same as the AE made the decision to return easier.

Ago 23, 5:21 pm

>110 astropi: I agree it has a beautiful cover, and hopefully very few copies are defective because what a waste if not.

Editado: Ago 23, 5:32 pm

Luckily the AE is extremely well made and absolutely gorgeous.

Hasn't the 1984 George Orwell numbered book problems with the slipcase aswell ?

So had the Neuromancer?

Editado: Ago 23, 6:13 pm

>112 edkennedy: The numbered is far more elaborate and thus what I would consider a different binding since the process of producing the two covers are clearly vastly different.

>115 Ragnaroek: Agreed. I really didn't feel the need to spend hundreds more for the cover - that said, I'm not judging anyone that does, I'm sure we've all purchased books solely on the cover despite that old silly adage :)

Ago 23, 6:14 pm

>116 astropi: Is it? In what way?

Editado: Ago 23, 6:30 pm

>117 edkennedy: I’d say the vellum spine is more elaborate than a cloth spine. I’m no binder, but I’d bet that the work required must be much greater.

There’s not much difference with the boards though, even if the letterpressed paper is more beautiful than the elephant hide paper. The binding technique for both must be pretty similar, so I don’t view it as much more elaborate (though more visually elaborate).

Ago 23, 8:31 pm

>118 Nerevarine: What is more "elaborate" about one material or the other, when they are employed for the exact same binding style? I honestly wonder if anybody here can give a real answer, as I am curious.

Editado: Ago 23, 8:41 pm

>119 edkennedy: I'm not trying to start an argument or anything, but honestly if you think both of the covers below are equally elaborate, then I just don't think we're going to agree and there's no point in discussing the matter -

Ago 23, 8:45 pm

>119 edkennedy: More elaborate, for me (and the dictionary), means among other things more complexity / craftsmanship.

I think it’s undeniable that a vellum binding requires more craft and attention to details than a cloth binding.

I saw an earlier message of yours wishing there was a discussion forum where craft and quality were more discussed. I think this discussion about vellum vs cloth is a great example of that. And more craft / quality = more elaborate. Maybe it’s just a definition issue.

Ago 23, 8:47 pm

>120 astropi: Well there is our misunderstanding. You meant the second meaning of the word "elaborate" while I meant the first. In this case I think we are both right.

Ago 23, 8:49 pm

>121 Nerevarine: I agree, and am glad to see the craft discussed. Now I am wondering if anybody here knows from experience that "a vellum binding requires more craft and attention to details than a cloth binding." Is that "undeniable," as you put it? What is different about vellum versus cloth?

Editado: Ago 23, 8:57 pm

>123 edkennedy: You’re right, it’d be great hear from someone with experience in the matter. I’m definitely no binding expert.

I think it was just logical for me to assume that vellum requires more craft than cloth for binding, when one is far more widely used than the other. And also when I saw above that several other binders had turned down doing the numbered Animal Farm, due to the complexity of working with vellum.

Ago 23, 9:11 pm

A third Suntup thread! Has somebody reached out to Paul to ask him to join up for a Q & A here? He's a real gent.

I finally picked up a Suntup book, the lowest-tier Animal Farm. It's a very nice book, fully equivalent in its craftsmanship to a Thornwillow half-cloth. The reason I hadn't before was simply that Suntup's aesthetics, and those used by most of the genre presses, are not to my personal taste. But as I examine Animal Farm more closely my appreciation for it has only grown. I'd encourage literally any fine or private press collector to get one.

By the way, I object slightly to the talking point, which I hear sometimes, that Suntup and other genre presses are publishing "Mega McPopular titles" while the private presses publish "niche esoterica." One man's niche is another man's canon. Of the ten Suntup titles currently up, I haven't heard of eight of them. Maybe it's because there's a lot of overlap between the online fine press community and the horror / weird / midcentury pulp fiction readership, but I don't think Suntup gets nearly enough credit for putting his neck out there with a cogent yet envelope-pushing editorial vision.

On top of that, Suntup takes great care in design, and follows typographic orthodoxies to a T (which many other presses don't!). And Suntup collaborates with top-notch printers and binders. I think the comparison to the Limited Editions Club is really apt. In other words: Suntup is absolutely a fine press, geesh. "And if you don't know, now you know!"

>120 astropi: >121 Nerevarine: >123 edkennedy: Depends on the vellum and depends on the cloth, but ninety percent of vellums will be much more difficult to work with than ninety percent of cloths. Consider care in handling alone. If you touch vellum with your fingers too forcefully, it might warp or stain. Now try binding a damn book with it! You could run over most cloth with a semi-truck, dust it off and move on. So, >123 edkennedy:, you're right that the two books are fundamentally the same binding style, but the materials make a huge difference to the craft. You could definitely say it's more elaborate, though I'd prefer to say it's "finer," in the sense that it takes more finesse.

Ago 23, 9:23 pm

>125 grifgon: Your insights are greatly appreciated !

Editado: Ago 23, 10:00 pm

>126 Nerevarine: I think this touches on a general insight which plays a major role in all the related crafts of fine presswork, but which may not be apparent from afar. That is, material consistency matters a ton.

Cloth is a highly manufactured commodity, so any two stretches of the same cloth product will be exactly the same. Even if there's a lot of skill required in working with cloth (there is!), once you have the know-how and muscle memory sets in, you're good to go. Vellum, on the other hand, is a craft commodity, so it can be wildly inconsistent. You may have two cuts from the exact same hide that have different properties – different grains, different weights, different stiffness, different hardness, different colors. So, when making an entire edition from vellum, the craftsperson is constantly adapting as the material shifts from under them. Plus it's a more delicate material to begin with (as mentioned before). Plus it's way more expensive, so mistakes gouge your business.

It's the same thing with all materials. When a printer receives a box of machine-made paper, say Mohawk, they pop open the box and start printing. Every sheet will be the same size, weight, color – same everything. When a printer receives a batch of handmade paper, often the first thing they often do is weigh each sheet to sort the sheets by thickness. They're made from somebody dipping a screen into a vat and shaking it out. You can't possibly expect the person to dip the exact same amount of pulp every time. To maintain impression and letterform weight consistency while printing across these different sheets, they're going to have to change how they print accordingly. Furthermore, imagine trying to maintain good registration (that is, alignment of text front-to-back, up-and-down, side-to-side) when the paper sheets aren't all the same size. It's perfectly doable, but significantly more work than on machine-made paper.

The inconsistency of craft materials, by the way, provides one raison d'être for hand-bookmaking. Many craft materials are simply non-machineable, so they can't be used in bookmaking except by hand.

By the way, does anybody know where the lowest-tier Animal Farm was bound? There's no info on the website, and I'd love to test my own theory about how it was bound.

Ago 23, 10:23 pm

>124 Nerevarine: And it sounds like the binder they did use should have turned it down as well.

>127 grifgon: Thanks, I had assumed otherwise.

Ago 24, 12:24 pm

Paul Suntup in Facebook group:

"Hi everyone. I just wanted to say that we will chat about the Animal Farm binding defects on the next live broadcast. You should also know that the bookbinder who bound this edition will never be used again for any other book of ours. Further, the Numbered edition of Animal Farm was the only book they bound, and there will be no more. The Stepford Wives, Legion, Psycho, The Godfather, etc., are all being bound by a different bookbinder who we have a good track record with. My sincere apologies for this poor experience. It was an impossible situation, and a perfect storm of supply chain failures. See you on September 20th. I will have some news to share".

Ago 24, 12:48 pm

That sounds very nice 😊
Thanks for sharing

Ago 24, 12:57 pm

>129 Lukas1990: I appreciate that he took the time to address the issue and post that. Suntup's customer service has always been great. This wasn't an easy situation to deal with.

Ago 24, 1:09 pm

I came across this today re: Animal Farm:

(Click on the "Animal Farm" tag to see their other posts in the series, although at least a few of them are member-only.)

Editado: Ago 24, 1:15 pm

>111 edkennedy: while this is true, Bugra has a lot of durability issues in my opinion and as such is a poor choice for anything that will endure even a moderate amount of handling. In addition to tendency toward fuzz, it is also an oil magnet and so is extremely easy to leave fingerprints on even if one doesn't have particularly oily hands. In my entire experience collecting, I think this is the only paper with which I have had this issue (and more than once).

While some collectors are comfortable treating their books with kid gloves (metaphorically or literally), I consider a certain degree of robustness to be a component of successful design.

Editado: Ago 24, 6:08 pm

It was a gross error in judgment to even let many of these copies out of the door. I don’t know what he was thinking, when books with much smaller issues are put up as dinged copies for large discounts.

Edited to add: surprised at all the adulation he’s getting for this. That people are upset and he’s apologized doesn’t erase the fact that he thought it made good business sense to ship a lot of crappy books out.

Editado: Ago 24, 1:40 pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Editado: Ago 24, 2:20 pm

>132 emarshal:
Guys reputation is ruined now 🫡
Sometimes it's better to not do an project at any cost.

Ago 24, 4:56 pm

>129 Lukas1990: News to share? Slowing down the release schedule from one a year. Or some news of a big release to bring back some positivity?

Ago 24, 5:59 pm

I think Suntup has not been lacking positivity? Pi sold out and looks amazing. So does the new one...

Ago 24, 6:23 pm

>134 What_What:

1. Binder gets blamed for the mess - a convenient scapegoat?
2. What is the "impossible situation" Paul refers to?
3. What is the "perfect storm of supply chain failures" Paul refers to?

Convoluted apologies... What does Paul apologize for exactly? How much is actually Suntup at fault? To what extent was Paul aware of the problem? Were the books drop shipped from the binder or from Suntup after a perhaps too quick a quality check?

Wouldn't it be more professional to issue plain apologies - mea culpa - and offer a workable solution all at once instead of this muddy pologies-in-installments?

Ago 24, 7:04 pm

I certainly do not know all the details, but I'm sure anyone could reach out and ask for everyone's side of the story - the publisher and binder namely. As noted >136 Ragnaroek: the guy's reputation is basically ruined, and I do find that sad. Again, not assigning blame right now to anyone. Also it would be good to know what percentage of the numbered were defective?

Editado: Ago 24, 7:40 pm

>140 astropi: I hesitant to butt in because it's none of my business, but it is possible that the binder is blameless. Did he choose the vellum, or was it supplied to him? Is the vellum graded for the sort of work it was used for? Not all vellums are. If you give a basketball player a cantaloupe and say, "I need you to go play basketball with this," you can't completely blame them for missing shots.

I noticed in a video that the binder is wetting the vellum. Many vellums cannot get wet because it will remove the alum and cause the skin to literally putrefy over time (with major discoloration the main sign). If the binder was supplied the vellum, was he provided with the complete information about where it came from and the process of its manufacture (which is vital to know)?

Ago 24, 7:34 pm

>140 astropi: It is a bit harsh to say that the binder's reputation is in tatters. This is only a single instance/failure and on top of it one involving material(s) finicky/difficult to work with or perhaps even defective (supply chain issue?).

Was the binder forced to take on this project despite potential challenges? No; however, there may have been problems along the way including quality of the materials, timeline, pressure from the publisher etc. that contributed to the final outcome. If these defective copies were shipped to Suntup for final quality inspection and Paul sent them out defective hoping for a miracle, should he be absolved of responsibility?

Ago 24, 8:01 pm

>139 EPsonNY: Many of your questions were answered in the letter that was included with many of the damaged copies of the Numbered edition of Animal Farm. This was previously shared in the Suntup Fans FB group, so I'm reposting it here. In this case, he did issue " plain apologies - mea culpa - and offer a workable solution all at once" directly to those involved and then followed it up with a broader public apology and statement to address concerns that other books were being done by the same binder.

Editado: Ago 24, 8:10 pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Ago 24, 8:38 pm

>143 ExLibrisDavid: What was the thinking behind sending out these awful books? I think it would be good to share photo samples of the books in question, to go along with that letter.

- One had a major discolouration across the middle section of the spine.
- Another has spots all over the vellum.
- Multiple copies have the spine stamping askew - they simply are not horizontal.
- On all copies the stamping is very patchy and is flaking off.

Editado: Ago 24, 10:34 pm

>143 ExLibrisDavid: Thank you for posting the letter.

"We sincerely apologize for this mishap" are literally the last words on the page...

Tongue-in-cheek! Perhaps one of the freight company workers was playing basketball with a cantaloupe, distracted the forklift operator and caused him to drop the Suntup's pallet damaging enough books for the company to risk their reputation knowingly shipping out duds and crossing their fingers that buyer's won't notice... In the end, all guilty parties - vellum vendor, gold foil manufacturer, the binder, freight company should ALL be immediately canceled! So sad!

Editado: Ago 24, 9:38 pm

>143 ExLibrisDavid: Am I understanding right that they shipped out damaged copies without any forewarning and put the burden of returning them on the customer? And that even if you don't return your damaged copy, you have to take action to actually get the 25% discount on a future title?

That seems like a pretty disingenuous tactic to get customers to keep the book and take the discount, or better yet do nothing and absorb the press's losses for them.

They should have cancelled all orders that would have warranted a replacement copy, or offered them on discount.

Editado: Ago 24, 11:00 pm

>142 EPsonNY:
I dont think it's harsh. It's the truth sadly.
Everyone knows the name of the binder + his store name.
Book binding is an dying art. Very small number of craftsmans available. Very few absolute Masters of the craft. And an very small community/ buyers of this art.

The guy said in his video that everyone turned the project down, but he accepted it because of his skills, beside that he said he never did such an large quantity...

Even if the Vellum was of bad or questionable quality, the binder holds responsibility in the end and should have stopped until the quality is fine enough to work with. It's not an 50$ book we speak of here.

Second, Suntup/Paul said that he will never work with this binder together again. Thats an headshot if you ask me, in this kind of business. Paul is one of the biggest fine press books deliverer.

If the guy would have succeeded in this contract he would had gain reputation and more contracts from Paul. If I understand it correctly his next project was planned to be the Stepford wives...

We can only wait for an statement from him and Paul, but it won't change his damaged reputation.

Paul said in his statement letter that there were some books with unperfections in the binding aswell, which doesn't speak for the binder to handle such an big quantity of books.

// some are getting damaged through shipping/handling. Isnt there any insurance that handles such things ?

The Artist Magus was hugely discounted because of some imperfections and The animal farm was just sent arround the world, knowing that alot of copy's are damaged or imperfect 🤔

Does Suntup atleast sent an return shipping label if you dont wanna keep the book?

Editado: Ago 24, 10:56 pm

>147 NathanOv:
And that's exactly my thought too.
It sounds really horrible from Paul. They knew the book wasn't up to Suntup standards and instead of informing the customer about it, they just sent it anyway.

I couldn't bear having an damaged 500$ book on my shelf, even with the 25% discount on the next publication.

We are collectors and our priority is to have an fine copy of the books we collect, don't we ?

Ago 25, 6:32 am

>138 DramPan: I mean something positive for the buyers/fan base like a particularly popular/ much wanted title to create some more positive vibes talk after the Animal Farm issue

Ago 25, 7:55 am

>150 Schlermie: How about Hellbound Heart in a special vellum that sags and tears like it's wearing a brother's ill-fitting skin?

Ago 25, 8:20 am

Ago 25, 9:03 am

>151 LeBacon:
I bet it will be sold out in minutes anyway.

Editado: Ago 25, 9:36 am

>148 Ragnaroek: Fine book craftsmanship is a lot about relationships. Ultimately, Paul chose the binder or had no other choice but to go with him as he was the only one to approve his design choices for the binding. Whether the binder had the required experience to work with the materials or produce a large quantity within a tight time frame are part of the vetting process. One has to take responsibility for one's vision and choices one makes to bring it to fruition. It did not work out this time, but ultimately the fault is Paul's. I believe all parties involved will bounce back smarter from this experience.

Ago 25, 10:08 am

>154 EPsonNY:
Sound reasonable, but if the fault is Pauls, he shouldn't blame the binder. Didn't the Binder deserve a second chance then or did you mean that it was Paul's fault choosing the binder ?

I would like to hear the statement of them both to be honest.

Ago 25, 10:36 am

>151 LeBacon: I'd probably buy that. Though I'd likely stick some fish hooks and bits of chain in it as well.

Ago 25, 10:38 am

>156 Shadekeep:
Splendid 😊🤩

Ago 25, 2:57 pm

>141 grifgon: >142 EPsonNY: Just to be clear, I am not assigning blame to anyone. Again, I don't know the full details. That said going from the letter >143 ExLibrisDavid: it sounds like there were some issues with the binding and then also some of the vellum got damaged so it was not possible to repair in a timely manner (it may also have been too pricey to purchase a new supply). At the end, I do generally feel people deserve a second chance. However, if you ask someone to do a job for you and you both agree on the price, and a large portion of the job is shoddy. Well, I can certainly understand why you wouldn't work with them again. I mean, if I paid someone to replace my roof and after the thousands of dollars it was damaged and I would have to spend thousands more, yeah, I wouldn't work with that person again - I think we can all agree on that.

Ago 25, 3:09 pm

>158 astropi: What if you hired a contractor, and the guy he hired to do it did a shoddy job. Who do you hold accountable? The roof guy, or the contractor who picked him, and watched him do all the work and presented a shoddy roof to you?

Ago 25, 3:22 pm

>158 astropi: I don’t think we have enough details at this point in time to assign blame. Some books appear immaculate, but at least two are in a terrible state (someone commented on Facebook that they wouldn’t pay $50 for one of these, and this aligned with my view).

If the binder did 340 perfectly and 10 poorly, then I’m not sure why they didn’t have enough material to make 375 with the extras being PC copies. Is this the fault of the binder or publisher? Either way, the publisher saw the final state of some of these books and still choose to send them out, and this does make me think less of them. It is baffling that the binder could do such a good job on some, and yet such a poor job on others.

Ago 25, 4:37 pm

>160 DMulvee: Weird that the binder would even ship out such shoddy work with obviously first contact with the books. This is turning into a whodunit mystery.

Ago 26, 10:54 am

>129 Lukas1990:

This wasn’t tactfully crafted. Exposing the binder like this (and potentially damaging his reputation) was, in my opinion, unprofessional.

Ago 26, 11:39 am

>162 bacchus.: This statement is totally false. Suntup never exposed the name of the binder at any point. That's not his style. The binder had posted progress shots on his blog, and a link found its way onto the FB group.

Ago 26, 12:09 pm

>163 John_McClane: It was an indirect reference, I agree, but unsurprisingly it didn’t take long for the name of the alleged culprit to surface. The community’s ability to connect the dots means that the publisher’s statement still had consequences for the binder’s reputation - ie the result was the same.

Ultimately, the publisher makes the final decision on which binder to use, which materials to select, and whether the end result is on par with the quality envisioned - Suntup is accountable for the end product.

I believe in this case Suntup could have approached the situation in a way that took more responsibility for the oversight while still assuring customers.

Ago 26, 9:34 pm

>133 abysswalker: “Bugra is also an oil magnet and so is extremely easy to leave fingerprints on even if one doesn't have particularly oily hands. In my entire experience collecting, I think this is the only paper with which I have had this issue.”

I have recently discovered this issue for myself. I ordered a copy of the “Tell-Tale Heart” from eBay, and could see my fingerprints on the cover after just one use. Very disappointing.

Ago 26, 9:39 pm

>165 jroger1: Again, how the hell does Suntup not notice potential design flaws on the prototypes?

Ago 26, 11:36 pm

>165 jroger1: >166 Undergroundman: Again, this is one of the most common papers in fine press. I probably have more than a hundred books with it. It is not an oversight by Suntup or a remarkable choice in any way.

Ago 27, 4:37 am

>167 edkennedy:

It's one thing to use it for endpapers, another for the covers which are touched a lot more.

Ago 27, 9:16 am

>168 SF-72: It is commonly used for covers, endpapers, slipcases, text pages, linings, illustrations. I own many examples of all of the above and have never experienced a problem.

Ago 27, 9:56 am

>167 edkennedy:
I don’t know enough about paper to discuss their various qualities and do not necessarily fault Suntup for using a common one. All I can do is to relate my experience regarding this one product.

Ago 27, 3:03 pm

>166 Undergroundman:

Are we even sure there are prototypes? They’re pretty expensive to do and since it’s a one off item, the producer would spend extra care to make sure it was done correctly.

Ago 27, 3:53 pm

>171 copperstatelawyer: Suntup has repeatedly showed them on his facebook lives. Of course they get dummy copies without the print, and hot foil stamping that's just the basic design of the materials being used.

Editado: Ago 28, 6:17 pm

I'm absolutely astounded that people here (and Facebook, etc) are trying to place blame anywhere but Suntup and Paul Suntup for this. Folks paid the company for the promise of a product and are receiving subpar quality editions, all while Suntup admits in a note that they noticed the defects BEFORE shipping to customers. Nowhere do we pay a manufacturer or contractor or anyone else and blame someone they hired when we get an unsatisfactory item, or poor quality job completed.

The excuses given range from destroyed copies - to saying they couldn't remake the books (why? because the customer can afford to take a value hit but the company can't?), to a post on Facebook that says they'll never use the binder again. This is all deflection of the fact that they purposely delivered a product they knew was bad. Oh, and just to rub a little salt in the wound, they place the onus on the customer to take the time out to return the book within 7 days or take a half-ass store credit.

The Suntup supporters (of which I was previously counted) have gushed about the quality and customer support, and unashamedly are still doing so after this debacle. Hell some folks even have gone as delusional to claim these defects might add something to the production.

This is asinine. If any of the other publishers we're all so familiar with on this forum provided us something like this they'd be set ablaze.

Ago 28, 6:25 pm

>173 Objectr:
Thank you for the true words 👍
I think we will hear more on 20 September.
I wrote my piece of thought to this matter already.

Ago 28, 6:45 pm

>173 Objectr: Agreed on all accounts. This situation is so dire and needs to be dealt with so urgently, you can all tune in to his webcast in three weeks to find out more lol.

Ago 28, 9:01 pm

In their defense, it seems like the defects ranged pretty significantly from moderate to severe, and since the numbers were already assigned, maybe they just wanted to send them out and let people judge for themselves instead of contacting each member separately and trying to explain how bad the issues were on a case by case basis? Not to mention the challenge of seeing if books could be reassigned based on those errors.

Easiest to just let the customer decide in person I think.

I also feel bad for the binder, but it's not like there's any way around him getting "outed." The fine press community is pretty small, I'm sure word would've gotten around unless the whole fiasco was actively covered up or blamed on something out of their control. I'd like to see him get another chance because I recognize that mistakes happen/it is a business I want to support, but when you look at how much $$$ goes into these runs it's not something that can be overlooked.

It's an unfortunate situation but things like this do happen and at the end of the day customers are being given the option to return for a full refund if they like. It's one bad mark against a company with an otherwise great track record, if that's the final straw for you as a customer then I get it, but I don't see any reason to blow it up into anything bigger than that.

This is one of the drawbacks of the "funding" business model.

Ago 29, 12:12 pm

>173 Objectr: Yeah this was incredibly mismanaged. This is coming right after they had previously offered up a bunch of Magus AEs at 50% off the cover price because they supposedly didn't meet their standards for shipping - and from the reports I've seen, the damage was somewhere between nonexistent and barely noticeable for those copies. So you send this one out the door with those lousy options?

Suntup held these people's ~$600 for 18 months and made no mention about the book damage in their last FB Live update (and there's no way they weren't aware of the issue at that point - books were in hands with the damage letter days later). They should have at least offered at least a 50% discount to be consistent with past sales and should have extended the return window to at least 30 days. This really looks like an attempt to minimize their own losses at the expense of their customers, and I can't believe how eagerly people in the FB group are trying to cover for them.

I do expect they will announce some better terms for the folks that got screwed in their next live update. It's just too bad it took getting called out for them to do so.

Ago 29, 12:22 pm

Maybe they just wanted to get rid of The Magus. The illustrations were really not good... The book itself isn't something for everyone.. the actors from the film said that nobody knew what the story was about 😁

Ago 29, 12:47 pm

>178 Ragnaroek: I like the illustrations in The Magus, they are deliberate styled to evoke tarot cards. But yes, not everyone's cuppa. I picked up a "dinged" copy and the damage was trivial. In earlier remnant sales I've picked up volumes where I can't even tell what the supposed damage is.

Ago 29, 1:23 pm

I'm not looking to pile on. I'm genuinely curious. Wouldn't a damaged shipment from the binder be covered by insurance? Or, is it hard to make a claim for damaged, but not destroyed or lost, books?

Ago 29, 2:06 pm

>180 SDB2012:
Suntup only ships by media mail which does not include insurance unless it is purchased separately.

Editado: Ago 29, 2:17 pm

Before I rage any further I wait for the 20th September.
But something smells wrong here

Ago 29, 2:22 pm

>179 Shadekeep:
True. 😊
Some Suntup decisions are just not my taste.

Ago 29, 2:32 pm

Does anyone know the date the September release will be available to the public?

Editado: Ago 29, 2:39 pm

>184 RRCBS: September 23rd:

>180 SDB2012: Was likely asking about the shipment damaged by the handlers. I thought it would be insured as well.

Ago 29, 2:39 pm

Ago 29, 2:54 pm

>181 jroger1: Wouldn't pallets of books be cheaper than Media Mail if shipped via LTL freight? Weird that USPS would be used for pallets.

Editado: Ago 29, 5:19 pm

>181 jroger1: From the binder to Suntup. A large shipment of books was damaged, apparently. Why no insurance? Also- Suntup has a variety of shipment options the the customers. I always use priority mail/USPS. 2 days and the boxes to customers are very secure.

Ago 29, 5:57 pm

>188 SDB2012:
I agree that the packing is very secure, but I’ve never been offered a shipping method other than media mail. I see from their website, though, that options exist, so I’ll have to check it out next time.

Ago 29, 6:03 pm

>189 jroger1: you can select it during the ordering process.

Set 5, 7:29 am

Anyone has experience with "specialbookstore" on Instagram?
It seems like he/she is an Bookseller, with alot of rare Suntup Books for an decent price.

Set 5, 9:59 am

>191 Ragnaroek: I'd be very careful with that one. There are a number of very similar sounding "bookstores" on instagram that have been identified as scammers on various publisher facebook pages. I do not know about this one in particular, but it sounds close enough that I'd be concerned. The other sites were clearly stealing pictures from sale posts online and pretending to have the books, but didn't actually have them for sale.

Set 6, 8:46 am

>191 Ragnaroek: I wouldn’t buy anything from anyone on Instagram.

Set 6, 3:42 pm

There was recently an Instagram seller who was using the Instagram photos of a member of the Facebook group as his own books for sale. Agree I wouldn't buy from a seller on Instagram.

Set 7, 3:38 pm

Hello, I'm the bookbinder who bound the numbered edition of Animal Farm.

I've been reading quite a bit of this thread and thought I'd chime in with what happened from my perspective. There are way too many comments for me to track and respond to individually, so I made an Open Video Letter post on my Patreon page, I've set it to public so you can view it. I've also attached a PDF of the letter I read in the video, the video goes beyond the letter to respond to some of your conversations...

If you have any questions the video doesn't answer, please feel free to field them here. I'll do my best to answer them.


Set 7, 5:45 pm

>195 Edward_Patrick_Kranz:
Thank you for youre Statement.
It seems like alot went wrong here.
Lets see what Paul has to say on the 20th September.

I wish you all the best 🙂

Editado: Set 7, 11:21 pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Set 8, 3:42 am

>195 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: Thank you for responding and helping to explain what happened

Set 8, 7:06 pm

>191 Ragnaroek: DO NOT buy from specialbookstore. They're using my photos and I promise you I am not selling my books. I'm the guy behind the YouTube channel and I lurk here all the time, but your comment forced me out of the shadows to create an account. No book lover deserves to be scammed! Maybe those who collect muscle cars deserve it, but not book readers and collectors.

Please do not buy from that account. I've tried to get him banned and IG won't lift a finger.

As you were.

Set 8, 8:23 pm

>199 TheJeffWord:
Ohhhh gosh. Thank you very much for warning me !! I banned that guy !!!

Editado: Set 9, 3:08 am

>195 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: Hi Edward, I am one of those who returned my copy of Animal Farm. The vellum on mine was fine, but it had other issues, that, though each individually may have been small, but all together, I couldn't accept for the price point. Thank you for addressing this. I appreciate the honesty and your willingness to list down the problems. It takes courage to admit to faults, especially in a public forum like this. I wish you all the best and hopefully more luck in your next projects.

Set 9, 4:02 am

>195 Edward_Patrick_Kranz:

Thank you for being so open and sharing your side of this. It sounds like everything that could go wrong did go wrong in this case. Sometimes things just happen like that, and it's so frustrating.

Set 9, 4:02 am

>199 TheJeffWord:

Thanks for the warning.

Set 9, 2:10 pm

>195 Edward_Patrick_Kranz:

I don't have an iron in this fire, but I very much admire you for making your statement public. I wish you all the best in your future endeavors!

Set 9, 2:40 pm

>204 amysisson: Thank you.

Set 9, 2:40 pm

>202 SF-72: Thank you.

Set 9, 2:41 pm

>201 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: I understand. I deeply regret that copies went out that were less than perfect. Thank you.

Set 9, 3:11 pm

>207 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: For what it's worth, I received one of the copies without any imperfections. I think it's one of the better Suntup Editions I own.

Was the damaged shipment insured? It seems they could have been remade, though it would have taken some time.

Set 9, 4:14 pm

So if I understand it right those spots on the Vellum aren't "damage" ?

Editado: Set 10, 12:07 pm

>208 SDB2012: I don't have information on the damaged shipment. SUNTUP arranged for the pickup. I packed up the books, palleted them up, and saw them off. Damage done in shipment is between SUNTUP and Old Dominion Freight Line. I would assume they had insurance on the shipment.

I had 60 textblocks left over beyond the overrun of the edition. I could have bound them, yes.

I am happy to hear you are pleased with your book! Thank you.

Set 9, 6:49 pm

>209 Ragnaroek: The spots I've seen in images from the SUNTUP fan page (Unofficial) were not damage. They were naturally occurring color variations of the animal skin that were sent to me by SUNTUP from Pergamena. Tomorrow, I plan to take a picture of many of the off-cuts from the spines to show the variations in the vellum supplied to me. I had no reason to believe that SUNTUP was expecting perfect white or cream-colored spines. I'l post the images on my Patreon page at 10 AM.

Set 12, 3:51 pm

We have one more "clued" book coming, this month's title, correct? If I recall the clues it's almost certainly The Last Unicorn, unless there has been a schedule shift. Actually looking forward to the next round of clues as well.

Set 12, 10:01 pm


Set 13, 2:43 am

>211 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: I don’t quite get why mottled, patchy or ‘patterned’ vellum is seen as a defect. One of the most beautiful vellum bindings in my collection has the most exquisite natural leaf-like patch right across it. It’s stunning!

Set 13, 4:49 am

>214 ChestnutPress: Your book looks wonderful. Unfortunately one of the books that I saw on the Facebook group has discolouration in the middle of the spine. It looks odd and would be noticeable on any bookshelf.

Editado: Set 13, 7:01 am

>214 ChestnutPress: It’s simple - people like flawless/pure things. They’re also less common.

Editado: Set 16, 4:55 pm

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Set 13, 9:47 am

>214 ChestnutPress: that spots looks absolutely stunning ☺️

Set 13, 1:48 pm

>215 DMulvee: I still don’t get why that’s a problem, as discolouration of vellum is quite natural. Personally, I will never view such things as a flaw, but to each their own

Set 13, 1:48 pm

>218 Ragnaroek: doesn’t it just!

Set 13, 5:53 pm

A bit off-topic, but The Outsiders will have their musical Broadway debut in March -

Gotta wonder if this will bring more interest in the work and consequently Suntup's fabulous production -

I'm amazed the author-signed edition is still available, but it is. It's also shipping now, so anyone that ordered the numbered edition should receive it soon :)

Editado: Set 13, 10:43 pm

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Set 15, 3:07 pm

>214 ChestnutPress: I couldn't agree more. When I was informed by the rep handling me that the books were spotted, I asked if it was natural mottling of the vellum or if there was some other damage. They never responded. I really like the spins with natural coloration. I also like the few that were milky white. They both have attributes that are lovely. Your book looks fantastic.

Set 15, 3:18 pm

>223 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: I assume it was an expectations issue more than anything. They released a mockup with uniformly colored, spotless vellum and then set users up looking for flaws with the imperfect copy letters.

I've received errata from multiple publishers clarifying that any spotting or pores in the leather are entirely natural, and it's helped with my appreciation of those works.

Set 15, 6:34 pm

>223 Edward_Patrick_Kranz: It’s curious the answer was never forthcoming on whether the spotting was natural or something else. I’d totally understand people being put out by oil stains or the like! I have a variety of bindings that use vellum and love the mix I have of purest milky white and magnificently mottled. The example I posted a link to is really something else and I HAD to buy it on seeing it. The binder of that copy always uses the choices skins, whether ‘pure’ or otherwise. The one thing all have in common is the perfect craftsmanship of his binding.

Editado: Set 16, 6:41 am

>224 NathanOv: This explanation is so obvious I’m not sure why it’s being overlooked. What was delivered isn’t what was promised, and the press acknowledged this. You wouldn’t ever find a Hermes wallet or purse with “beautiful natural flaws” or “magnificent mottling” on it simply because in both of these cases the idea is you’re getting something perfect.

Editado: Set 16, 4:54 pm

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Editado: Set 16, 6:08 pm

>226 What_What: Ironically, the natural flaws and patina that build up on those products over time are also seen as highly desirable.

Set 17, 5:41 pm

Set 17, 6:10 pm

>228 const-char-star: isn't Patina an metal thing ? Copper, Silver ... ?

Set 17, 6:55 pm

>230 Ragnaroek: do a web search on "leather patina" and you will see what is meant here.

Set 17, 7:33 pm

>228 const-char-star: "Over time" might be the key part though? One might expect to receive the product in flawless, perfect-looking condition unless otherwise noted, and envisage that the unique patina would occur as they own and/or use the product.

Set 17, 10:52 pm

>232 BooksFriendsNotFood: This is what I don't understand. Is >228 const-char-star: comparing a flawed new product to one that has seen years of use and abuse? How is that irony?

Editado: Set 18, 4:16 am

>231 abysswalker:
"From the scratches and marks your keys make on your wallet to the darker spots on your journal cover where your hand always touches and rubs. Thus, leather Patina is something developed through everyday use.

The accumulation of dirt, body oils, sunlight, and wear and tear (like spilling a drink on a leather coaster) creates a darkening and soft sheen to leather goods. Consequently, the leather will over time oxidize and age naturally to give these effects."

Thank, but I dont want an leather patina on my books😀
Iam an collector and I wouldnt pay anything for an abused book

My goal is to preserve the book and not to destroy it ..

Editado: Set 20, 12:01 pm

Hello! I'm trying to access the Facebook live announcement -- I am following Suntup on FB, so should I just go to their page and wait?

Never mind, found it!

Set 20, 12:51 pm

Just got an email from Suntup, they now have their own bindery. Sounds like a smart move.

Set 20, 12:59 pm

>236 Shadekeep: wow, I am both surprised and impressed to see both Amy Borezo and Lisa Van Pelt on their list of binders! I guess this means they’re more “white labeling” than truly binding in house, but it’s promising none the less.

Set 20, 1:36 pm

My computer flaked on me partway through the Facebook Live event, so I missed any news at the end. Tomorrow's announcement -- will that just be on the Suntup website and the FB page? It's not another live event, is it?

(Sorry for all the newbie questions!)

Set 20, 2:09 pm

>238 amysisson: I didn't watch the Live, but if by "tomorrow's announcement" you're referring to the book reveal & order links for the Classic Edition, then yes, it'll be up on the website tomorrow at 9am PT (and there will also be an update on social media, through email, etc.). And if this is not what you were referring to, please ignore ◡̈

Set 20, 3:04 pm

>237 NathanOv: They may be part of the operation, though of course there is wiggle room in the wording that could indicate otherwise. The relevant bit from the announcement reads:

Several months ago, an opportunity presented itself, and I jumped at it. Through the years, we have utilized many different binderies for our books. One in particular has always impressed us in the excellence of their craftsmanship. This bindery has consistently produced a quality product that we and our customers have loved. When I learned that the bindery was shutting down, I stepped in and hired their four key bookmakers and purchased the equipment needed to assist in the binding process.

So it sounds like they were on-boarded, but perhaps they do operate with some autonomy, since it also says he "purchased the equipment needed to assist in the binding process", which may mean an atelier or other off-prem facility.

Set 20, 3:54 pm

Here's the full announcement for anyone who may be interested --

Hello Friends,

I have some exciting news to share with you. As you may know by now, we hold ourselves to a high standard when it comes to the quality of the books that we publish. One of the biggest challenges I have encountered in this journey is the limited control we have when it comes to outsourcing the bookbinding.

We have had to be very selective when sourcing bookbinders to work our books, and although we maintain certain bookmaking standards, there are times when imperfections creep in, and/or deadlines are missed. For several years now, I have wanted to have my own in-house bookbindery where we control the binding.

Several months ago, an opportunity presented itself, and I jumped at it. Through the years, we have utilized many different binderies for our books. One in particular has always impressed us in the excellence of their craftsmanship. This bindery has consistently produced a quality product that we and our customers have loved. When I learned that the bindery was shutting down, I stepped in and hired their four key bookmakers and purchased the equipment needed to assist in the binding process.

After months of planning, I am delighted to announce that we now have our own in-house bookbindery. Suntup Bindery is a dream team of bookmakers with 20-30 years of experience in their field. Some of the books this team have made for Suntup Editions over the years include the Numbered editions of Misery, The Handmaid’s Tale, Horns and Blackwater, as well as the Lettered editions of Red Dragon, The Lottery, Neuromancer, 1984 and A Scanner Darkly, just to name a few.

I have made this move because of my commitment to you, our customer, to do everything in my power to publish the best quality books that I can, given the inherent challenges in bookmaking. Suntup Bindery is as close to a “silver bullet” as you can get in terms of reducing the occurrence of binding defects or imperfections and to deliver the highest quality product that we can.

Aside from having more control over quality, we also anticipate improvements in turnaround times which will get our books into the hands of customers that much faster, and it will also allow us to provide certain upgrades at no extra cost.

Of course, nothing I can do will eliminate imperfections or defects entirely. In my opinion, that is impossible. Bookmaking is an error ridden art. But what this will do for us is greatly reduce the occurrence of such imperfections. Further, it’s important to know that not every book we publish will pass through our bindery. We will still spread the workload to our team of artisan bookbinders, where quality issues are less of a concern. Supporting these craftspeople is important to me, and that will continue. But we will handle as many editions as we can through our bindery while maintaining a high level of quality.

I am very excited about this new chapter, and our bindery is already at work on several editions, some of which we have not yet even announced.

I thank you for your continued support of Suntup Editions, from the bottom of my heart. I appreciate you all.

Paul Suntup

Set 20, 6:22 pm

Seems like it could only be a good thing having an 'in house' bindery for longevity and cost. Is there some dark cloud I'm not seeing? Over leveraging perhaps?

Set 20, 6:26 pm

>242 A.Godhelm: I can't see anything bad in this move of owning an in-house bindary

Set 20, 9:16 pm

yeah this seems like a best case scenario for them. they can have a bindery to focus almost 100% on their books. the only reason that is feasible is because the press has done well enough financially, so good for them. that is no small investment.

Set 21, 12:08 am

I think it's lovely. As he's clearly a person who is beyond passionate about books, that lack of control he mentioned in the FB event today had to have been difficult to deal with. And I like that he will still be spreading the word around to outside folks he's come to trust.

Set 21, 12:08 pm

All three editions of the Last Unicorn are stunning and letterpress printed

Editado: Set 21, 12:16 pm

>246 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: Agreed! Pre-ordered the Classic, as I'm not optimistic I'd secure one of the other editions.

EDIT: I love the tapestry styling of the Numbered edition.

Set 21, 12:17 pm

>247 Shadekeep: I am debating if I should risk it and wait until Saturday.

Set 21, 12:21 pm

>248 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: I haven't tried for a higher edition yet, as I assume a fair number are held in reserve for recent purchasers of those tiers. Is this accurate, and how difficult is it typically to get a higher tier edition? (Obviously that is affected by the popularity of the title itself, too.)

Set 21, 12:31 pm

>249 Shadekeep: All depends on the title. Last month was a mad rush for the numbered during public preorders and I missed on it by seconds during check out. I did manage to secure one on the secondary market. I feel this month will be the same on saturday. So many non right holders are looking for a numbered copy of this.

Set 21, 12:37 pm

Iam not sure how famous this title is.
Most people will know the movie adaption.
I really like the numbered design, it has an Clamshell too.

The Classic Edition is top notch in price and quality though. Hard to beat an Letterpress printed book, with Slipcase, illustrations, Dustwrapper and signed by the Author for this price...

Set 21, 1:20 pm

>250 Praveenna_Nagaratnam: Yes, I expect quite a scramble for this one. I might go ahead and try for one, it won't bother me to have two letterpress editions of this title.

>251 Ragnaroek: It's a well-known and highly regarded book even outside the film. No doubt the film put it on some people's radar, but it is not the only or even primary reason for the book's acclaim. Think of it in the same league as Watership Down in that regard.

Set 21, 1:28 pm

>251 Ragnaroek: Iam not sure how famous this title is.
Like Jaws, Silence of the Lambs, Psycho, etc. the movie is now part of the American zeitgeist and consequently, the book is too. I agree, each edition is gorgeous and I think Suntup's letterpress books have really become the new LEC -- gorgeous editions with original illustrations printed letterpress and signed -- for around $200 = WIN :)

Set 21, 1:33 pm

>253 astropi:
Count me as one who has never heard of the book or the movie. Is it children’s literature? I see that the movie is animated. The others you mentioned are clearly adult horror.

Set 21, 1:40 pm

Could someone who has both numbered and classic editions / AGEs by Suntup of the same books answer this? Is the quality of the illustrations better in the numbered editions? I've been frustrated with the quality in several of my AGEs since they were printed on the same paper as the text, matte when it doesn't fit (it's fine for graphite drawings, not at all for oil paintings, for example), and often just a little bit blurred compared to what a high-quality print (like in books by Folio Society, for example) would look like. I'm tempted by one or two numbered editions (The Last Unicorn and an upcoming one), but whether or not the illustrations are superior in those editions is a very important factor. Thank you!

Set 21, 1:45 pm

>253 astropi: No shade on anyone who enjoys Suntup and their output — I dip in every now and then, most recently for Pi — but I'd be more inclined to agree with the LEC comparison if they weren't quite so ... genre? They're more like if the LEC and Subterranean had a really stylish baby.

Set 21, 1:50 pm

>254 jroger1:

The book is a fantasy classic and definitely not children's literature, though it can be read by kids. (I did and enjoyed it very much, but could get a lot more out of it as an adult.) The film was published 14 years after the book. I find it visually just perfect and it really does justice to the book, but being animated it is often automatically seen as something for kids, though it also goes beyond that, like the book. I would love to see a modern take on this, with real actors.

Set 21, 1:51 pm

>256 gmacaree:

I find them far superior to Subterranean Press when it comes to sheer creativity and what they offer with their books. Subterranean Press has a wider range with regard to content, though.

Set 21, 1:52 pm

I expect The Classic edition to sell out today. This is a book where they certainly could have sold a limitation of 1000.

Set 21, 1:54 pm

>255 SF-72: The description of this particular classic edition states the illustrations are "tipped in." Perhaps this suggests the paper is different for text and illustrations, at least for this title?

Set 21, 2:11 pm

>254 jroger1: It's "children's literature" or more appropriately "young adult" literature, but it is true literature in that most anyone regardless of their age can greatly enjoy the work which is full of universal themes most anyone can relate to.

>255 SF-72: I typically purchase either the "Classic" edition or the numbered, not both. That said, from what I've seen there is no discrepancy between the quality of the illustrations among the different editions. The primary difference really is in the binding, with the numbered editions being more intricate.

>256 gmacaree: That's certainly fair, Suntup is aiming for more popular works overall while the LEC was of course publishing "popular" literature of the time which included numerous "classic" works. That said, the LEC did also publish some truly unique works that have never been done in a fine-press format since such as The Martian Chronicles which I feel is akin to many of Suntup's offerings. Also, Suntup does dip into some classic works such as Poe, Animal Farm, Johnny Got His Gun, etc.
I will say in my opinion Suntup is far higher quality than Subterranean, again, my opinion based upon the books I've owned of course :)

Set 21, 2:11 pm

>260 JacobHolt:

I hope so.

Set 21, 2:12 pm

>261 astropi:

Thank you for that information.

Set 21, 2:25 pm

>251 Ragnaroek: The Classic Edition is top notch in price and quality though. Hard to beat an Letterpress printed book, with Slipcase, illustrations, Dustwrapper and signed by the Author for this price...

Agreed, so pre-ordered the Classic Edition :)

Set 21, 2:31 pm

By the way, anyone know when Suntup is going to announce the next set of title clues?

Set 21, 2:33 pm

>265 LeBacon: I don't recall the window last time between the last clued announcement and the next batch of clues, but I hope it's soon. I rather enjoy the exercise.

Set 21, 2:38 pm

>266 Shadekeep: I'm more ok with Suntup's version of the guessing game since it is more guessable (compared to Folio's where it's all so frustratingly vague as to be no fun at all).

Set 21, 3:27 pm

29 Classic Editions available.

Set 21, 3:30 pm

>267 LeBacon: Agreed.

>268 SF-72: Holy cats. 25 now. Today may see the last Last Unicorn out the door.

Set 21, 3:36 pm

>265 LeBacon:
Next monday

Set 21, 3:38 pm

And all Classic unicorns have been driven into the sea...

Set 21, 3:39 pm

>271 Shadekeep: very grateful I got to order one! Got out of my meeting and ordered one as I walked to have lunch! This will make it three Suntups in a row after previously only having one!

Set 21, 3:41 pm

>271 Shadekeep:
That was very fast. I think the same will happen with the numbered.

Editado: Set 21, 3:43 pm

>272 RRCBS: Congrats! And welcome to the habit. ^_^

>273 Ragnaroek: Given today, I expect the Numbered to be a bloodbath and gone in mere minutes.

Set 21, 3:43 pm

I’ve never ordered from them before, but this has been on my to read list for years, a nice edition (classic) will inspire me to finally do it.

Editado: Set 22, 4:32 am

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Editado: Set 22, 5:40 pm

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Editado: Set 23, 12:39 pm

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Set 23, 12:17 pm

Shocked that even at 250 it went to a lottery. Had zero interest in this book.

Editado: Set 23, 12:39 pm

>279 Undergroundman:
~10 books went to the lottery

Its looks phenomenal

Set 23, 12:53 pm

It certainly looks like Suntup now went too far in the opposite direction when it comes to how many books to produce. They could have easily sold more in this case, which I don't find surprising with such a popular fantasy classic. It's a shame numbers for other, less popular titles were increased to the point where they didn't sell well enough, and then the pendulum swung in the other direction for something like this. I hope they'll do better with American Gods. That's another sure seller.

Set 23, 1:01 pm

>279 Undergroundman: the novel is a classic in several regards. First, as a counter-culture novel (published 1968, around the summer of love etc.), as a notable example of genre subversion (virtually none of the characters or events are stereotypical in terms of myth or fantasy), as straight classic in the fantasy genre, and as the source text for the animated movie (which is related to the first point above).

It has been on my list of works for which no fine edition exists yet for years now, where I have been keeping my eyes open for potential editions to replace my old paperback.

It's the only Suntup title for which I have entered a lottery.

Here's two articles that shed additional light if you are curious about the popularity:

"It’s not an epic fantasy, but a softer tale at the boundaries of magic and reality, that place where one grapples with what it means to be human."

Editado: Set 25, 11:45 am

A bit of a detour, but anyone know off the top of their head which Suntup numbered editions feature both letterpress printing and a paper upgrade?

Their printing seems to have greatly improved based on print samples I’ve seen posted, but Mohawk superfine is one of my least favorite papers.

Set 25, 11:19 am

>283 NathanOv: Slaughterhouse Five numbered - letterpress printed on stonehenge cotton paper.
If am not mistaken Charlie used a different paper too.

Set 25, 11:30 am

>283 NathanOv: Most of the recent numbered editions appear to feature paper changes from the Mohawk in the classic editions. The Last Unicorn numbered is on Crane’s Lettra. Psycho is on Somerset Book. The Stepford Wives is on Neenah. Overall it looks like when they go letterpress they default to Mohawk in the classic and then use other papers in the numbered and lettered. Typically the numbered and lettered editions differ as well.

Editado: Set 25, 11:52 am

The new clues are out. Here they are for our armchair bibliosleuths.

October (announcement date October 12th at 9 a.m. PT)

A chilling and seminal work of literature, the author of this famous short story was not in the least bit cowardly. The book is available in two states: Lettered and Numbered. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies and the Numbered edition is limited to 340 copies. All editions are typeset in hot metal Monotype Baskerville and printed letterpress on handmade and mouldmade papers with wood engravings printed from the original blocks. An important and prolific Pulitzer Prize winning author was commissioned to write an afterword exclusively for our edition. All copies are signed by the author of the afterword and the artist.

November (announcement date November 16th at 9 a.m. PT)

Our second title by this author, it has often been praised as "the scariest haunted house story ever written." The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies, and the Artist edition is limited to 750 copies. All editions are printed letterpress. The edition contains the final work of a renowned artist who sadly passed away shortly after completing the illustrations for this title. Three writers were commissioned to write an exclusive introduction, foreword and afterword (None of whom are Stephen King.) All copies are signed by all three collaborators.

December (announcement date December 14th at 9 a.m. PT)

A brand new novel by a frequent favorite of our customers, this will be the first edition of this new novel. The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Classic. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies, and the Classic edition is limited to 750 copies. All editions are signed by the author and artist.

Might the November title be Ghost Story, pitting Suntup against Centipede and their forthcoming edition? Interesting also that the October edition will not have a Classic/Artist format.

EDIT: Maybe not Ghost Story. While Straub is in the Suntup author lineup page, I see no indication they ever published one of his own books.

Set 25, 11:58 am

November sounds like Hell House by Richard Matheson. The quote fits exactly and it would be the second book after I am Legend. If so, I hope it will be the same illustrator, I really enjoyed his work for I am Legend.

It doesn't sound like American Gods will be on this quarter. I thought they'd said that was the plan, but if so, it's been delayed.

Editado: Set 25, 12:24 pm

>286 Shadekeep: >286 Shadekeep: Well the October story is very intriguing to say the least, though I doubt many will get a chance at it.

My wild guess would be Shirley Jackson's "A Possibility of Evil" with an afterward by Joyce Carol Oates, given this sounds strikingly similar to Suntup's edition of "The Lottery" and Oates is a Suntup collaborator who's written on the story before.

I guess I'm not sure it's "seminal" enough or what the cowardly hint has to do with, though.

Editado: Set 25, 12:24 pm

>287 SF-72: Would be great if it's Hell House, that's another I'd happily pick up.

EDIT: >288 NathanOv: I wasn't sure of what to make of the "cowardly" comment either. Thought it would point to either with an author whose name could be linked to that term (Craven, Lion, etc), or otherwise was known for a work featuring such a character. The Legend of Sleepy Hollow perhaps, since Ichabod Crane is a famous coward?

Set 25, 12:26 pm

>287 SF-72: sounds correct.

"Hell House is the scariest haunted house novel ever written. It looms over the rest the way the mountains loom over the foothills." -- Stephen King

Set 25, 12:27 pm

Following on from my previous comment, with the October release also being the Halloween title, I'm going to put my chips on The Legend of Sleepy Hollow. Would love to get it if so, but have no expectation since there won't be an all-comers release.

Set 25, 1:00 pm

>291 Shadekeep: Parsing the clue a little differently, Colson Whitehead is the only author who could be called a prolific winner of the Pulitzer prize, though I can't think of a "chilling and seminal" short story by any of the authors he frequently cites as inspirations like Borges, Marquez, Beckett or others.

Probably not what Paul meant by the clue, though.

Set 25, 1:12 pm

>292 NathanOv: Aye, I think he intends the modifiers to read more along the lines of "an important and prolific author who has won the Pulitzer Prize". Which broadens the field of candidates considerably.

Set 25, 2:13 pm

For December a "brand new novel by a frequent favorite of our customers, this will be the first edition of this new novel."

I'm assuming Ania Ahlborn again - any other plausible guesses?

Set 25, 2:57 pm

>294 LeBacon: I think you are right, and that's unfortunate. My only guess is they signed a multiple book contract. It's a wasted month.

Set 25, 3:13 pm

>294 LeBacon: My suspicion as well.

Editado: Set 25, 4:57 pm

October = The October Game by Ray Bradbury ?
November = it could be Hell House indeed which I think is really awesome.
December = Ahlborn ... not really interested 😕 ( please not... but the clue is too good :( )

Editado: Set 25, 5:27 pm

What would happen if I have rights, buy an Book i don't like to keep rights, wait for the next publication , order the new book and cancel the other book... ?

Sometimes this feels like an good solution, I cant imagine that nobody did this before.

Set 25, 5:43 pm

>298 Ragnaroek: I think you only get 14 days to cancel numbered and above, so by the time the next was available to order it would be too late to cancel.

Editado: Set 26, 9:08 am

>299 Schlermie: good to know. How unfortunate😁

Editado: Set 26, 9:14 am

So I think November and Dezember publications are quite obvious, but still we aren't sure for the October release, are we ?

We have :
The Legend of Sleepy Hollow so ...
My guesses would still be "The October Game" by Ray Bradbury
Or Henry James, “The Turn of the Screw"
I tend more to the second though, because it's an Ghost story

Set 26, 9:24 am

>301 Ragnaroek: I'm going to stick with my Sleepy Hollow guess, given the clues "chilling", "seminal", "famous short story", and "cowardly". It just seems to line up nicely with those, and it is something of a prototypical Halloween tale. And honestly it's due for a good edition (I'm not counting the Easton Press compilation volume).

I hope I'm right, because I entered the lottery for the numbered Last Unicorn, in no small part to have a chance at this title. ^_^

Set 26, 9:46 am

>302 Shadekeep:
I would like ..Sleepy Hollow. We will know very soon.

Set 26, 9:54 am

>302 Shadekeep:
If it is Sleepy Hollow, and I think it probably is, it needs to be ready to go on the announcement date in order to be delivered before Halloween. As there is no artist/classical edition, that may be possible.

Set 26, 10:02 am

>304 jroger1: Good point. I'll be curious to learn if they teamed up with a notable fine press to produce this edition, as well.

Set 27, 8:53 am

Ohh no. Godfather got delayed 4 month... they found quality issues 🤯😵‍💫😔

Editado: Set 27, 9:07 am

>306 Ragnaroek: We have discovered a quality issue which we are requiring the outsourced bookbinder to resolve.

Sounds like they set up their own bindery at the right time. Hopefully it will prevent further issues like this in future.

EDIT: Meanwhile there's been no progress on The Stepford Wives since June. All editions are queued in the binding phase. It would be useful to get an update on those too.

Set 27, 9:07 am

>307 Shadekeep: iam really worried now tbh. This is one of my favourite books and I really wanna have a perfect fine press copy of it 🤕

Editado: Set 27, 9:38 am

>308 Ragnaroek: Paul will see things set to rights. And honestly it's still not as delayed as some other titles yet. As I mentioned in my edit above, there's been no motion on The Stepford Wives for a while now. Typically the Artist edition moves along pretty sprightly, so I'm curious why these are all in the doldrums.

Set 27, 9:20 am

They delayed the numbered Godfather and in response upgraded the binding and the cover, this sounds like a very good deal!

I was critical of them sending out the Animal Farm, but this is an excellent response

Set 27, 9:26 am

>310 DMulvee: upgraded the binding and Cover? To what ? Any pictures ? Where do you see that ?
Didnt they only upgraded the Slipcase to an Cigar style case ?

Set 27, 9:28 am

>310 DMulvee: "They delayed the numbered Godfather and in response upgraded the binding and the cover, this sounds like a very good deal!"


Set 27, 9:54 am

The delay is 3-4 months, and a status update for those that ordered the Godfather numbered (not myself) that was posted on the Facebook group states that instead of a standard slipcase there will be a cigar style enclosure, and instead of cowhide the book will now be bound in goatskin

Editado: Set 27, 10:05 am

>313 DMulvee:
Funny. The book was fully finished for some weeks now, only the Slipcase was missing.
So they completely rebind it, it seems ?

Goatskin is better then Cowhide for Books then ?

Set 27, 10:10 am

>314 Ragnaroek: Goatskin is better then Cowhide for Books then ?

I don't know that a blanket statement like that could be made, especially as it matters how each is prepared and used. That being said, goatskin does seem to be a bit more versatile when it comes to taking on various textures and colors.

Set 27, 10:31 am

>313 DMulvee:
It’s frustrating that Suntup posts important information like this on Facebook but not on their own web page. I’m not a Facebook member and don’t wish to be.

Editado: Set 27, 10:41 am

>316 jroger1: I don't believe Suntup has posted anything to Facebook. Suntup communicated with subscribers via email, and one of the subscribers chose to share that email in the fan Facebook group. The basic content about the delay can be found on Suntup's website at .

Set 27, 10:41 am

>316 jroger1: They didn't post directly, someone who received the update posted it on the group there. They described the change from cowhide to goatskin as an upgrade in part because of the increased waiting time, so I think this is an upgrade

Set 27, 10:58 am

>318 DMulvee: again... the book was fully finished for weeks on the Suntup News Page. It was shown as fully finished / bound with the green Symbol.

My guess is that they had quality issues with the cowhide . I dont know ... its weird.

Set 27, 11:31 am

>319 Ragnaroek: "again... the book was fully finished for weeks on the Suntup News Page. It was shown as fully finished / bound with the green Symbol."

That's for the Artist Edition; I have not seen that for the Numbered Edition.

Set 27, 12:04 pm

>320 Dr.Fiddy:
It was for the numbered 100% . I watched for an Status update every week

Set 27, 1:32 pm

>321 Ragnaroek:
Well, in that case, this would have been a seldom, early release compared to the originally planned winter 2023-2024 release…

Set 27, 1:39 pm

>307 Shadekeep: "Meanwhile there's been no progress on The Stepford Wives since June. All editions are queued in the binding phase. It would be useful to get an update on those too."

Likely that's because they were originally set to be bound by the bookbinder they had the fiasco with over Animal Farm, which led to the Stepford Wives job being pulled.

Set 27, 1:48 pm

>323 whytewolf1: That makes sense, thanks for the info.

Set 27, 2:45 pm

>322 Dr.Fiddy:
That true, maybe it was a mistake , but iam sure what I saw.

Set 27, 2:51 pm

>322 Dr.Fiddy: >325 Ragnaroek: There's at least a partial easy answer to this:

They were binding back in July and also case-making, but have since rolled back the status.

Set 27, 3:44 pm

Ha, it's nice to know Suntup watches this thread. Just received this email. ^_^

Our original publication estimate for The Stepford Wives by Ira Levin was for the Fall of 2023. This one was scheduled about a year out from when we announced it, and since we are running behind we wanted to provide you with an update.

The book is printed and is currently at the bookbinder. Once we have a bound copy, the slipcase production will begin. Our rough estimate for shipping this edition is January 2024.

Set 28, 1:06 pm

I honestly don't care if the books are delayed. He's a perfectionist and really wants to get things right. There are a zillion moving pieces in this process. I feel pretty certain none of us could do better!

Set 28, 1:20 pm

>328 amysisson: "I feel pretty certain none of us could do better!"

Well, not many of us are professional publishers. Sounds like Suntup is doing better by their customers this time around, but I've always found "let's see you try" to be a silly argument when one person's supposed to be an expert in a particular area.

Set 28, 2:17 pm

>328 amysisson: Agree. Suntup has been very consistent with overall deliveries. A little hiccup here, and there is fine.

Set 28, 3:31 pm

Essa mensagem foi considerada abusiva por vários usuários e não mais será mostrada. (mostrar)
Hello, I'm new here. How's everyone doing?

Out 12, 12:05 pm

Ha, so that's what the "cowardly" clue means, as "yellow" is old slang for that. A bit ashamed I didn't make this guess, as this is a book I actively collect editions of. Will try to get the Suntup one as well.

Out 12, 12:10 pm

>332 DramPan: Yes please!

Editado: Out 12, 12:11 pm

Im a little disappointed now, because I really thought it would be sleepy hollow 😁

Out 12, 12:27 pm

The Alice Walker afterward (and signature!) is quite a coup.

The wood engravings also look really good - I wish more publishers hired wood engravers for illustrations as I prefer those to a lot of the more painterly or digital type illustrations.

Out 12, 12:29 pm

While it’s a short work, that $325 price-point for the Numbered edition is very compelling.

Out 12, 12:35 pm

I'll definitely be jumping into the lottery for the Numbered Edition if one is offered. (If it's listed for direct sale and I'm quick enough, even better.) A large slice of covetousness will be set aside for all who are able to secure the Lettered Edition.

Out 12, 1:54 pm

>338 Shadekeep: I’ve got rights to buy a numbered edition I’m not planning on using. Happy to buy it for you so you don’t have to worry about the lottery if you’d like.

Out 12, 2:22 pm

>339 jsg1976: Wow, that would be very much appreciated! Happy to include a "finder's fee" as well. Do you need to reserve it before it goes live, or should we wait to see if I can purchase it through the usual channels? I've not been on the inside of this process before, so not sure how it plays out in mechanical terms.

Out 12, 2:54 pm

>340 Shadekeep: I’ll PM you

Out 12, 5:47 pm

Ordered a copy.
+ love the milimeter binding
+ great price
+ letterpress
+ wood engraved illustrations
+ clamshell

- just 3 ? Illustrations 🫨😵‍💫

Out 13, 6:27 am

>342 Ragnaroek:

It does seem like a bad joke that there is an extra illustrations, but it's only available in the portfolio, not with the book.

Out 13, 6:33 am

>343 SF-72:
I thought the same ...

Out 13, 8:11 am

Considering that there's no "Classic Edition" I suspect this will be rather highly prized, in the same vein as The Lottery

I presume the next publication will be back to offer a Classic Edition --

Out 13, 10:14 am

A little more $ for more Illustrations would be awesome and every penny worth it 👌

Out 13, 10:26 am

>346 Ragnaroek: While I generally agree more illustrations is better, this is only 64 pages in length, including the afterword and author's essay. For such a short story, having only three feels like enough. That fourth illustration is a depiction of the wallpaper pattern again so not that essential, IMO.

Editado: Out 13, 10:30 am

>345 astropi: Though I think it’s a lovely edition, I’m skeptical that The Yellow Wallpaper will become highly-prized by the Suntup community. The Lottery is a seminal work of horror fiction, whereas The Yellow Wallpaper, though no less important a work (and perhaps more important) is, I think, little known by the genre fans that make up the largest part of Suntup’s customer base.

Out 13, 11:55 am

>332 DramPan: the cover and art on the lettered edition are fantastic. Not $2,500 fantastic IMO, but really nicely done.

Editado: Out 13, 1:47 pm

>348 whytewolf1: You're absolutely right that Shirley Jackson's work has in recent years received the attention it finally deserves, and I'm sure few people have heard of Charlotte Perkins Gilman or her work. But, there are two considerations which I think will make this rather prized --

1)The total number of copies will be 366, while normally with the classic edition the total number of copies is over 1000.

2)It has Alice Walker's signature.

Out 13, 3:09 pm

>350 astropi: You may well be right. I guess we’ll see. And I am certainly not wishing it ill. It would be great if it does sell out.

Out 13, 4:14 pm

>349 LBShoreBook: Really nicely done! But yes, not $2500 worth.

Editado: Out 14, 2:23 am

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Out 13, 4:50 pm

Wouldn't be surprised if we get signed copies of The Color Purple at some point. Not interested in that book, but know many would love a limited of it.

Out 13, 5:04 pm

>340 Shadekeep: I sent you a PM late last night. My rights expire at 8 AM PT Saturday, so just wanted to make sure you saw the message in time.

Out 13, 7:52 pm

Still 124 left.

Out 13, 9:35 pm

>356 SDB2012: I guess that answers the question >350 astropi:.

Out 14, 12:01 pm

Live now, just got it!

Out 14, 12:17 pm

Still 46 left 15 minutes after opening, but $325 for a short story with three illustrations doesn’t fit within my understanding of reasonable.

Out 14, 12:27 pm

>359 jroger1: Horses for courses. If it delivers on what is promised, it will be one of my happiest fine press buys of the year.

Out 14, 12:35 pm

>359 jroger1: I think it depends on how many times you read it. If you read it once then perhaps the value for money isn’t strong, but if you read it once every year then this could be good value

Out 14, 1:13 pm

>361 DMulvee: iam not sure many collectors buy this for reading purposes. Reading and collecting are 2 separate hobbies .

Out 14, 2:18 pm

>362 Ragnaroek:

They aren't for me. To me, a beautiful book is most deeply enjoyed when one is reading it.

Out 14, 3:48 pm

>362 Ragnaroek: I personally only buy books I plan to read.

Out 14, 3:50 pm

>364 NathanOv:
I too, but there are people out there, that just collect everything 😁

Editado: Out 14, 4:55 pm

Mensagem removida pelo autor.

Out 14, 9:04 pm

>364 NathanOv: I as well. I buy for myself or for gifts, but all are intended to be read.

Out 16, 4:46 pm

Not surprised it sold out very quickly. Anyone know or has a guess as to what the next edition will be and when will it be released to the public?

Out 16, 6:29 pm

>368 astropi:
On Wednesday, November 15th, I will broadcast live from Facebook at 9 a.m. PT. We will announce this title the following day, Thursday, November 16th at 9 a.m. PT, at which time the Artist edition will be available for pre-order. Matching Pre-Orders will also begin at this time, going to Lettered and Numbered owners of the title announced on October 12th with a designation of 1-250. If there are any copies of the Lettered or Numbered editions remaining after the Matching Pre-Orders, depending on quantities these copies will be available for purchase either by lottery or directly through the online store beginning on Saturday, November 18th at 9 a.m. PT.

Our second title by this author, it has often been praised as “the scariest haunted house story ever written.” The book is available in three states: Lettered, Numbered and Artist. The Lettered edition is limited to 26 copies, the Numbered edition is limited to 250 copies, and the Artist edition is limited to 750 copies. All editions are printed letterpress. The edition contains the final work of a renowned artist who sadly passed away shortly after completing the illustrations for this title. Three writers were commissioned to write an exclusive introduction, foreword and afterword (None of whom are Stephen King.) All copies are signed by all three collaborators.
It sounds like "Hell House" by Richard Matheson. (So are most guesses right now)

Out 23, 10:36 am

So I check in on the scratch & dent section (under the store menu) every now and then but never find anything. Has anyone ever seen/bought from this section outside of the advertised scratch and dent sales? Does he put things up on a running basis or is it just a placeholder?

Out 24, 6:09 am

>370 A.Godhelm: Mostly a placeholder. There are random drops of one or two damaged copies of books. And once ever there was a pre announced sale of lots of damaged books.

Editado: Out 24, 10:08 am

>371 What_What: I think there were at least two, maybe three announced sales? I bought from one and didn't get something in the other (and I think I missed one). But it's good to know it's not just a category there to mock me. I'll keep giving it a peek.

Out 24, 10:47 am

>372 A.Godhelm: I think it was (at least since I have been paying attention) two scratch-and-dent sales and one "launch of revamped website" sale that had non-damaged items discounted.

They swore that last one wouldn't be repeated but we'll see how badly they want to unload those remaining copies of The Outsiders.

Out 24, 12:53 pm

>373 LeBacon: There was some grumbling at each of the sales over whether or not it was just a sneaky way to unload unsold stock since many got books that seemed faultless. I know only one of the ones I ordered had a notable defect. I'm not sure why people get upset about this though, since it seems normal for companies sitting on inventory. Is it that it damages the idea of brand value on a luxury item?
I think Suntup is interesting precisely because he takes chances on titles (wouldn't have expected Life of Pi, signed and letterpress for instance), but that inevitably means there will be some duds where the market isn't there. I'll happily pick up Legion, The Magus and Outsiders if we ever get another sale, just can't justify it at the current prices.

Out 24, 1:25 pm

>374 A.Godhelm: I wouldn't pay retail either but there was some online book shop that had a flash sale where they sold a bunch of The Outsiders for $50 each. I heard about it too late but I totally would have picked up for my niece who loved that book as a teen had I known. I dislike the art on that one but it's hard to say no to that price.

Out 24, 1:43 pm

Thanks for the comments, I stand corrected about pre-announced sales.

>373 LeBacon: I was also surprised that people thought the press was discounting stuff in a "sneaky" way.

>374 A.Godhelm: Subterranean Press did a large discount on the AE they had in stock at some point as well.

Out 31, 5:10 pm

iam very interested in the "Iam Legend" numbered Edition (there are a couple on the secondary market right now). I never owned an Book that is bound in Vellum, though( that's leather,- pergament? Right ? )
Is such an Book readable without breaking the spine ? I saw an video (unboxing) on YouTube from JeffsWorld and the Spine is extremely stiff.

Out 31, 7:56 pm

>377 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Vellum is stiff and difficult to work with, based on discussions I’ve seen. But a vellum bound book doesn’t have to have a stiff binding. Unfortunately, that book does, and makes for not a great pleasure to read. It’s pretty nice otherwise.

Nov 1, 5:19 am

>378 What_What:
Thank you ! ! !

Nov 15, 7:35 am

The Amityville Horror AE arrived yesterday, well-packed as always. Will peel it out of the shrinkwrap later, but initial impression of the case and size are positive.

Nov 15, 8:54 am

>380 Shadekeep:
More importantly: tell me, if the story is well written !!! 😁

Editado: Nov 15, 9:05 am

>381 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: It's a decent potboiler of the bestseller variety. Moves at a good clip and has nice shock scenes. It's not quite at the level of Richard Matheson or Robert Bloch however.

Nov 15, 6:50 pm

I hope the new book isn't made from Snake or Alligator skin... I wasn't an huge fan of the material choice for Horns tbh.

Nov 15, 6:52 pm

>382 Shadekeep:
The real story is very interesting. I watched an documentary some time ago. Not sure about the book, though. I tend to "I don't need it"... difficult

Nov 16, 7:34 am

>384 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Agreed, I saw a good documentary as well (possibly the same one you did). The book has personal appeal to me as I was at just the right age for it when it came out and I enjoyed it. So it's something that brings pleasure to come back to.

Editado: Nov 16, 12:12 pm

Hello, Hell House. Looking fine, like the art, and it's letterpress. Ordered.

Nov 16, 12:14 pm

Wow, that Edition is absolutely stunning. The illustrations, design, clamshell... wow.
I need to have this.

Nov 16, 12:19 pm

>387 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: The ostrich leg leather on the Numbered Edition is surreal, but it works great with the overall design.

Nov 16, 12:23 pm

>388 Shadekeep:
I was very anxious that it would be more "exotic". I wouldnt buy a book from Snake or Alligator tbh.

Nov 16, 12:25 pm

Ordered this exhilarating production as a Artist Edition!

Nov 16, 12:38 pm

>389 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Neither would I. I'm assuming the ostrich comes from one of the commercial ranches where the birds are raised as a meat and egg source, so the skin is already something that exists as a by-product.

Editado: Nov 16, 12:42 pm

What are people's thoughts on the novel itself? Can it rightfully be called one of the scariest haunted house novels of all time - is it really that unnerving?

I really enjoyed I Am Legend so am tempted for that reason, but I generally don't read a lot of horror.

Nov 16, 12:47 pm

>392 GardenOfForkingPaths: It's a great book, though how scary a book is does depend on the reader. It's an interesting mix of spiritualism and science, and is written in Matheson's characteristic noir-ish pulp style, so there are lurid moments. I don't expect it would cost you much sleep if you were able to enjoy I Am Legend, however.

Nov 16, 1:00 pm

>393 Shadekeep:
"Iam Legend" was the first "classic" I have ever read. I love that book.
The book itself doesn't seem very popular nowadays, though. I have read the book in an paperback version ( the lower version of that, forgot the name). Extremely cheap production, but the book isn't available in an better state , atleast if you like it "new".

Nov 16, 1:02 pm

Anyone has the Booklist Paul mentioned in his Live talk?
I dont have Facebook, but would be curious to take a look.

Nov 16, 1:09 pm

That's an edition that I really wanted to buy until I saw the illustrations. Unfortunately, now I won't and hope that maybe Folio Society will do an edition. (I really liked their I am Legend, as well as Suntup's.) I much prefer it when the horror is a bit more under the surface of the illustrations, Jason Mowry being an excellent example among some of Suntup's previous illustrators. This is just ugly for my taste. But to each their own, there are clearly people who like them.

For those who know the book: Do the illustrations fit the descriptions there or is it just something the artist came up with?

Nov 16, 1:13 pm

>396 SF-72: I have a wide taste in art styles and this kind of commedia dell'arte grotesque appeals to me, but yes, to each their own! And the illustrations do dovetail with the book overall, I can place most of them in the context of the source text. One or two is more impressionistic, but they still jibe with the book as a whole.

Nov 16, 1:17 pm

Iam a little sad that they didn't used the paper that they used for Iam Legend 😔

Nov 16, 1:34 pm

>396 SF-72: It's been years since I read Hell House so I don't remember too many details. That said, I think the illustrations are wonderful and as best I can remember quite apropos. However, I fully understand it comes down to personal taste.

Nov 16, 1:56 pm

>393 Shadekeep: Thank you!

Nov 16, 3:13 pm

>397 Shadekeep:
>399 astropi:

Thank you, that's interesting. And yes, as long as illustrations fit what's in the book, it's really just about personal taste.

Nov 16, 5:56 pm

>394 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: Folio Society has a very nice version of I am Legend.

Nov 16, 11:44 pm

super cool that mike flanagan did the foreward/signed!

Nov 17, 9:13 am

>396 SF-72: It's funny, I had exactly the opposite reaction. I wasn't going to buy it but the letterpress and finally the illustrations pushed me over the edge. Good to see a horror title illustrated with illustrations which are, you know, horrific! I'd never heard of William Basso (RIP) but I googled him and his work is amazing (to me at least) - really the stuff of nightmares! The dust jacket illustration also somehow nicely complements Centipede Press' The Haunting of Hill House.

Editado: Nov 17, 9:34 am

This will be a title to be able and jump on the numbered train I think.

I like the Illustrations alot too.

Nov 17, 10:45 am

Just FYI to those getting this edition - writer of the afterword Nancy A. Collins also wrote a prequel short story "Return to Hell House" as part of the Richard Matheson tribute anthology "He Is Legend" if you want something to whet your appetite.

Nov 17, 1:20 pm

>404 Levin40:

I don't find them horrific, just ugly. In contrast to that, Jason Mowry, to refer to him again, can make me quite uncomfortable. It's a more subtle effect that really works on me. Art like that pushes my buttons with regard to discomfort, and fascinates me at the same time. Allen Williams sometimes works similarly, as do some others. But different people react differently to things like that, and that's absolutely fine. I just hope I'll have a choice some day and can get an edition that suits my own taste more.

Nov 17, 1:55 pm

I'd like to see a fine press use Thomas Ott for one of these kinds of books. He does dread well, especially in his wordless graphic novels.

Nov 17, 11:59 pm

Another fairly big book printed letterpress even on the AE. That's impressive. Interesting move to have a lottery for the special edition that includes AE purchases also.
Not in the market for this particular one, but hopefully these trends will continue in future.

Editado: Nov 18, 7:43 am

>409 A.Godhelm: Letterpress printing has large economies of scale, so once you’re making that large a limitation - 750? - the marginal cost is paper and machine binding for the AE. Smaller limitations carry a much larger burden for all the fixed costs.

So any company could probably produce a book with those elements at that price point.

The magic, of course, is the ability to make it attractive and sell all of them, which is where Suntup is massively successful in most cases.

Nov 18, 9:04 am

Yeah Suntup has an great marketing strategy. There aren't many fine presses that can sell out 1000+ books in a couple of days, each month.

Editado: Nov 18, 12:49 pm

Anyone knows wheather the Numbered Iam Legend edition has an suede lined slipcase, like for example the Slaughterhouse Five numbered book ?

Nov 19, 12:27 am

>412 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I’m fairly certain the slipcase is paper-lined.

Nov 19, 4:59 am

And....Hell House has gone! After a relatively rocky period last year (6/12 titles still available in artist or numbered editions) and the first half of this one, the last six titles, since Psycho, have been fast and resounding sell-outs. I'm impressed by how Suntup has turned things around with reduced limitations, interesting and varied selection of titles, striking designs and illustrations and a greater focus on artist editions printed letterpress and signed by authors. Fantastic!

Nov 21, 6:35 am

>395 Libri_mea_vita_sunt:

Cormac McCarthy - The Border Trilogy and No Country For Old Men
Franz Kafka - Can we get a complete works???
Metamorphosis. The Trial
Mikhail Bulgakov - The Master and Margarita
Malcolm Lowry - Under the Volcano
William S. Burroughs - Naked Lunch
Anthony Burgess - A Clockwork Orange
Haruki Murakami
Aldous Huxley - Brave New World
J.G. Ballard - Crash
William Faulkner - As I Lay Dying
Joseph Heller - Catch-22
Joseph Conrad - Heart of Darkness
William Golding - Lord of the Flies
Albert Camus - The Stranger; The Plague
Ken Kesey - One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
Daphne Du Maurier - Rebecca
John Gardner - Grendel or Freddy's Book
Don DeLillo - Underworld
Katherine Dunn - Geek Love
Brett Easton Ellis - American Psycho
Kurt Vonngeut
Angela Carter - seems unlikely but I love her.
Thomas Pynchon - Gravity's Rainbow
Douglas Adams - Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy
Toni Morrison - Beloved
Carson McCuller's - The Heart is a Lonely Hunter
Lord Dunsany - The King of Elfland's Daughter
T.H. White - The Once and Future King
Upton Sinclair - The Jungle
John Steinbeck - The Grapes of Wrath, Of Mice and Men
Alexandre Dumas - The Count of Monte Cristo
Margaret Atwood - more please
Roberto Bolano - 2666
Jorge Borges
Octavia Butler
Ursula Le Guin
Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Paul Bowles - The Sheltering Sky
John Crowley
Kazuo Ishiguro
Danielewski - House of Leaves
Vladimir Nabokov - Invitation to a Beheading, or Lolita
Larry McMurtry - Lonesome Dove
J.D. Salinger - Catcher in the Rye
Samuel Delany - Dhalgren
Richard Adams - Watership Down
Hunter S. Thompson - Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas -m
John Kennedy Toole - A Confederacy of Dunces -
Jack Kerouac - On the Road
H.P. Lovecraft - A massive tentacly compendium please
Philip K. Dick - More please
William Gibson - More please
David Foster Wallace - Infinite Jest
Herman Melville - Bartleby the Scrivener
Tim O'Brien - The Things They Carried

Nov 21, 8:55 am

>415 Schlermie: Is this your personal wishlist or are these titles Suntup said they are considering? There are at least half a dozen where I would be in the scramble for the numbered.

Editado: Nov 21, 9:23 am

>416 LeBacon:
This is the list someone posted on Facebook (Suntups fan group).
In his last Video, Paul mentioned the list and said that atleast 7, 8 ? Of this titles listed are in the making already.

Nov 21, 9:17 am

>417 BookMercenary: Ah, ok. Thanks. I don't use Facebook and wish more of that type of info was available in the news section on the Suntup site or posted as a youtube video.

Nov 21, 10:23 am

>418 LeBacon:
I’m with you. I’m not a member of Facebook and don’t wish to be. Information should be posted on the Suntup website.

Nov 21, 10:45 am

>419 jroger1: It's fan chatter. Nobody posts it on their website.

Nov 21, 10:46 am

>419 jroger1:
To elaborate and clarify, the list was posted by a fan on the Facebook fan page so it would not have appeared on the Suntup website. Then in a livestream on the Suntup website last week Paul Suntup happened to mention that around seven of the books listed by that fan are going to be future editions (he did not say which).

An interesting question then is what seven books in the list readers here would most like to see?

Nov 21, 11:06 am

>421 rld1012: Top three:

Naked Lunch (Burroughs), Crash (Ballard) - mostly because no one else is doing nice versions of these. I'd also really like to see what Suntup would do with Bartleby the Scrivener - their versions of The Lottery and The Yellow Wallpaper make me think they could do something really spectacular with this.

Others would depend on how the art looks:

American Psycho (Ellis), The Stranger (Camus), The Bloody Chamber (Angela Carter), A Confederacy of Dunces (Toole)

The Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Octavia Butler, and Nabokov would depend on the title.

Nov 21, 11:06 am

If any of those books were 1970s movies, that would be a good starting point :)

Nov 21, 11:09 am

>423 A.Nobody: Hahahaha… It is a fair point!

Nov 21, 11:13 am

Nabokov, Camus, or the Count of Monte Cristo would definitely get my undivided attention.

Nov 21, 11:31 am

I would be in for Watership Down, but with Centipede confirmed to be working on it, it seems unlikely Suntup would do a near-simultaneous edition.

Nov 21, 11:38 am

American Psycho could be an candidate.
The list contains really good books.

Nov 21, 2:44 pm

Stupid question, but ...
Are Suntups AE bound by hand?

Nov 21, 3:17 pm

>428 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: first, it's not a stupid question :)

Answer is no. Suntup does bind the numbered and lettered by hand. The AEs are machine bound. That said, they're still excellent.

Nov 21, 3:32 pm

>429 astropi:
Thanks for the fast answer and the link :)
That's good to know. The quality is very good indeed.
I will search the Internet for some Video footage of machine binding.
I only know how "the masters" craft them by hand .

Nov 21, 3:48 pm

>415 Schlermie: Gravity's Rainbow is never happening while Pynchon is alive. Other publishers have been trying for decades.

Nov 21, 8:22 pm

>431 Undergroundman: The same is probably true for some others. Unless I missed something, Salinger's estate is not the easiest to work with.
A few others seem highly unlikely because of their length: DeLillo's "Underworld" is ~800 pp, and "Infinite Jest" is even longer (not even counting the 300+ endnotes). "Lonesome Dove" was around that 800 pp. mark, if memory serves, although at least that one has wide appeal!

Nov 21, 8:38 pm

My biggest hope from the list is for some Ballard. Either Crash or High-Rise are solid, canon choices, and both have film adaptations, which seems to increase appeal with some demographics. Personally I'd most like Concrete Island, which also had a film planned but which appears to have died in development hell. I don't want The Drowned World unless it's part of the complete tetralogy.

Centipede is doing Neuromancer, which is about the only Gibson I'd be keen to collect. (The collaborative work The Difference Engine might tempt me as well.) Granted, if Suntup also does it, that may be the version I end up drawn to.

Delany's Dhalgren would be an enticing one. Dunsany would be too, though I consider him an unlikely choice. Still, if Paul is going in that direction, perhaps he'll also do E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros or James Branch Cabell's Jurgen.

Nov 21, 8:50 pm

>433 Shadekeep: Suntup already did Neuromancer, in 2021, so it seems particularly unlikely they’d do it again.

Nov 21, 9:16 pm

>415 Schlermie: Well, it's hard to put much stock in 7-8 of these being in the works when those could all just be additional PKD or William Gibson, but my sub-wishlist from this would be:

- Octavia Butler's Wild Seed books, or possibly Kindred
- Margaret Atwood's MaddAddam books
- Danielewski's House of Leaves
- Ursula Le Guin's Lathe of Heaven, or just about any of her Hainish novels
- Haruki Murakami's Hardboiled Wonderland

Nov 21, 11:38 pm

>415 Schlermie:

My wishlist from that group:

Ken Kesey - "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"
Octavia Butler - but either "Dawn" (first in Xenogenesis trilogy) or "Parable of the Sower" (or better yet, both books in the Parable duology)
Ursula Le Guin - "Left Hand of Darkness" -- don't like the illustrations I've seen in other editions

Nov 22, 10:37 am

>434 ambyrglow: Ah, that's right. Now that I look at their page for it, it is one I've seen before and even searched for to buy. Wonder what other book they'd do, then. Possibly they'd continue the trilogy. Or they could do the shorter work Johnny Mnemonic, which also has a film tie-in.

>435 NathanOv: Ursula Le Guin's Lathe of Heaven

That'd get my vote, and my money.

Nov 22, 10:42 am

Lathe of Heaven would be lovely (come on, fine press publishers, it's one of her shortest books!). But there's also never been a fine press version of Wizard of Earthsea to my knowledge, and I could see Suntup giving it a shot.

Nov 22, 10:51 am

While we're on the subject of woman sci-fi authors, I'd really love for Suntup to do Naomi Mitchison's Memoirs of a Spacewoman or Alice Sheldon's (as James Tiptree, Jr.) Up the Walls of the World. Both are overlooked classics that could have fantastic illustrations.

Nov 22, 11:08 am

I would pay an unreasonable sum for any Tiptree in fine press. So much of her oeuvre is short stories, it seems like it should be easy for even one of the smaller private presses to take her on--you don't need to commit to a whole novel. A chapbook of "The Women Men Don't See" or "Love Is The Plan The Plan Is Death" would be great. One of my book clubs just finished discussing "The Girl Who Was Plugged In" earlier this week, and I dream of being able to buy it in double feature with Kate Wilhelm's earlier "Baby, You Were Great."

...maybe I should start a new thread on short pieces people wish were available in fine press. We get very fixated on novels here, but there's a host of short fiction that makes for more achievable dreams.

Nov 22, 11:10 am

Lathe of Heaven also had an adaptation - it was a made for TV movie and if you could look past the 1980 low budget TV sci-fi effects it was a solid version. But it is very, very dated.

Nov 22, 11:53 am

>440 ambyrglow: I'd also love And I Awoke and Found Me Here on the Cold Hill's Side and The Screwfly Solution from Tiptree.

>441 LeBacon: Lathe of Heaven actually had two film adaptations. The PBS one you reference I saw in its original broadcast and it's quite good. The DVD editions are from tape, as this is yet another film in the history of those where the original was destroyed for some idiotic reason, putting PBS alongside NASA and the BBC. The more recent adaptation shown on A&E is abysmal and best overlooked.

Nov 22, 11:53 am

>439 Shadekeep: Great additions. Nnedi Okorafor is another who I’m shocked never has had any form of limited edition at all, though I wonder if that’s by the authors own choice.

Nov 22, 11:55 am

>440 ambyrglow: Have you read Wilhelm's Ladies and Gentlemen, This Is Your Crisis? She basically predicted the whole "reality survival gameshow" movement with that one.

Nov 22, 2:20 pm

>444 Shadekeep: No, I'll add it to the list!

Editado: Nov 23, 5:10 pm

What do you guys think about the newest Suntup development? (Good or bad direction? )
1. More custom-made leather headbands
2. More Traycase enclosure

If I look back at the latest three releases I see an very huge increase in quality. (Not that the quality was bad before, but its even higher now )

The most underwhelming production, from description and mock-ups so far seems to be Winterset Hollow, for me.

I really love those leather headbands. Slaughterhouse 5 got some and they are gorgeous.

Nov 23, 6:39 pm

>446 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I missed this news - is this for Artists / standard or numbered? I thought the majority of numbereds have been in traycases for a while now.

Editado: Nov 24, 1:41 am

>447 NathanOv:
Numbered. Paul said it on those FB live talks, some time ago.
The last three books have all custom made leather headbands and Traycase.
It won't be every book with such an "upgrade" , but those made in-house get it for sure.
Would be nice to now what you think about it.
Its atleast something the concurrence doesn't do right now

Editado: Nov 24, 12:10 pm

>448 Libri_mea_vita_sunt: I don’t love an “upgrade” to uniform design and production practices. The black Thornwillow clamshells on all higher states, for example, drive me a little crazy.

However, Suntup’s haven’t looked all that uniform to me (seeing them mostly via pictures since I don’t maintain # rights), so I guess deciding to cease using slipcases and throw a little extra leather in is fairly harmless.