The Rose Garden Massacre 2020

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The Rose Garden Massacre 2020

1Limelite
Editado: Out 4, 2020, 5:55 pm

Talk about the October Surprise being a bomb that goes off in your own backyard. Now it seems Trump staffers -- career staffers -- have assigned the announcement ceremony for Trump's latest SCOTUS candidate "The Rose Garden Massacre." Not much of an exaggeration considering how many of them have tested positive since the affair. And to think -- it could have ALL BEEN PREVENTED had attendees maintained the CDC coronavirus protocols. But no. Trump, minions, and suckers who attended sans masks, sans distancing, and sans hand sanitizing stations were asking to fall ill.

As Neil deGrasse Tyson tells us, ""The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it." I'm SOOOOOO tempted to type a HUUUUUGE "BWAHAHAHAHA!" Again, he proves in this quote that he's also prescient of why so much pandemic set up shop among the company trampling the grass in the WH backyard that fateful afternoon. "Perhaps we've never been visited by aliens because they have looked upon the Rose Garden Earth and decided there's no sign of intelligent life."

A reality based community member might ask this, "Well, Republicans. Learn anything, yet?" As Bob's yer uncle, of course nope. Former Staffer, Manigault Newman:
". . .why go and expose the staff, the secret service, the military aides, the wonderful staff in the residence, even the junior staffers you see there going in and out? They’re at risk in the Trump White House.
(SNIP)
Many of those career staffers have been testing positive for COVID and they do not have access to the best cutting edge technology like the president does. They could succumb to this virus. I’m hearing things, and a lot of it is that they just don’t understand why even now the White House has not changed their mask policy. People are still being allowed to roam around the complex saying they’re optional.
Sounds to me like the example of first-time accurate Republican name-calling.

2Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 5:13 pm

BREAKING: Claudia Conway claims she’s ‘currently dying’ of COVID-19 as family waits on test results. Perhaps the hyperbole of youth. Perhaps not. Her Tik-Tok:
“Update my mom has covid,” Claudia Conway said in one post. “im furious (sic). Wear your masks. dont listen to our idiot f**king president piece of s*it. protect yourself and those around you.”
(SNIP)
“my mom has no symptoms yet i literally feel like HELL,” Claudia said. She noted her symptoms are that her head is pounding, she can’t breathe and has fever and chills.

3Limelite
Editado: Out 4, 2020, 5:19 pm

Rose Garden Massacre Fallout from George Conway

George Conway teases possible ‘truth’ behind Trump’s rushed visit to Walter Reed last year.
George Conway
@gtconway3d
So I heard that we may finally find out the truth why they took Trump to Walter Reed last November. Let's hope we do.

@PhilippeReines
3:59 PM · Oct 4, 2020
Did he hear it from his wife? or. . .Suppose the press hanging around Walter Reed have got a source who's talked?

4lriley
Out 4, 2020, 5:20 pm

#2--Hopefully Claudia is not dying. She's a young person and all but from all kinds of people who've gone through Covid claim it's the sickest they've been in their lives. Mr. Cubby comes up with his 'oh, it's just the flu'--shouldn't speak of what he does not know.

5Limelite
Editado: Out 4, 2020, 5:54 pm

Unintended Consequences from Rose Garden Massacre

Trump advisers now saying GOP is the ‘stupid party’ due to president’s COVID-19 irresponsibility.

“There was a panic before this started, but now we’re sort of the stupid party,” said Edward J. Rollins, co-chairman of the pro-Trump super PAC Great America. “Candidates are being forced to defend themselves every day on whether they agree with this or that, in terms of what the president did on the virus.
(SNIP)
Veteran Republican adviser Stuart Stevens now works with the anti-Trump Lincoln Project. He said, “there is fatalism” among GOP officials and donors. “If I were running a Senate race, I’d run out and say the White House should have taken this more seriously.”

6Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 5:32 pm

7Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 5:47 pm

Fallout from Rose Garden Massacre Mounts
Travis Akers
@travisakers
·
Oct 3
Numerous employees of the Trump campaign have refused to go to work according to campaign sources, citing their anger towards the president for endangering their life.
Read the body language. What the mask conceals, the eyes reveal. That look when your blinders fall off.

8LolaWalser
Out 4, 2020, 5:48 pm

Pretty sure this is how history will remember this event (re: thread title...)

In one of the videos there was, among all the doofuses, a lady with a shield and a mask underneath--would love to hear how she's doing. Chuckling quietly into her tea/coffee/cognac, I imagine.

9lriley
Editado: Out 4, 2020, 6:09 pm

#7--the one in the dark blue dress is Kayleigh McEnaney. I'm sure she's at work.

I saw photos of the Coney Barrett coming out party. There were only a handful of people wearing masks. People who've gotten sick at this event--it's all self inflicted.

10Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 6:06 pm

BREAKING Trump leaves Walter Reed — then quickly returns after releasing video ‘I learned a lot about COVID — and I get it.’ Are you f^king kidding me!? A campaign stunt? After infecting a dozen or so attendees and staff at the Rose Garden Massacre? What??? -- return to the WH and sicken the butlers, cleaners, cooks, and servers, too, while they take care of him?
President Donald Trump appeared to be leaving Walter Reed on Sunday, a day before doctors said he “might” return to the White House. He was seen in the back seat of one of his black SUVs and waved at supporters. Trump then returned quickly to the hospital, so it’s unclear if he just left the building to wave to supporters or to try and project a strong image.
CNN VIDEO

11Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 6:14 pm

BREAKING 'Don't Tell Anyone!'

Even worse, these are the intended consequences from Trump's lying by ommission policy and personal habit.
Trump Didn’t Disclose First Positive Covid-19 Test While Awaiting a Second Test on Thursday.
President received positive result on Thursday evening before making an appearance on Fox News in which he didn’t reveal those results Instead, he confirmed earlier reports that one of his top aides had tested positive for coronavirus and mentioned the second test he had taken that night for which he was awaiting results.
(SNIP)
As the virus spread among the people closest to him, Mr. Trump also asked one adviser not to disclose results of their own positive test. “Don’t tell anyone,” Mr. Trump said, according to a person familiar with the conversation.
. . .Bill Stepien, didn’t know that Hope Hicks, one of the president’s closest White House aides, had tested positive on Thursday morning until news reports later that evening, according to a person familiar with the matter. The Trump campaign said Friday evening that Mr. Stepien had tested positive.


12LolaWalser
Out 4, 2020, 6:16 pm

Yep, that's one way I feared this could get spun--oh look he's positive, oh look he takes a few meds, oh look he's fine--so, nothing to worry about, folks, it's just a little flu...

13lriley
Out 4, 2020, 6:21 pm

I don't think he's going to be doing any more real traveling, debates or rallies before election day---which is good. Someone might have to hold his knife and fork for him and help him sign his name if he has anything to sign.

It's time for republicans to freak.

14Limelite
Out 4, 2020, 10:13 pm

Barr reverses, will quarantine for several days after potential coronavirus exposure.
Attorney General William Barr reversed his decision to not quarantine following possible exposure to the coronavirus and said instead that he would isolate himself for several days, according to the Associated Press.
Barr attended the SCOTUS nominee's Rose Garden Massacre party but has continued to test negative since then. The normal period of quarantine in cases where coronavirus exposure is known is 14 days.

15Cubby.R.S.
Out 5, 2020, 6:57 am

Hahaha... Most of these headlines look like National Enquired stuff.

16Molly3028
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 7:40 am

“I had to confront the virus so the American people stop being afraid of it so we could deal with it responsibly,” the President reportedly told Mr. Giuliani.

Greg Gutfeld ~ The Five/FOX News ~ spewed out this bullcrap
late last week, and the orange lunatic used the same excuse over
the weekend for his horrific behavior last week.

**********
I just pray that Claudia Conway is wrong about having Covid.
With a mother like Kellyanne, she doesn't need any other
enemies.

17lriley
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 7:51 am

#15--the National Enquirer--googling back into the past a little because history is good.

What's this? New York Magazine reporting that Donald Trump was behind the National Enquirer story of October 2015 headlined 'Bungling surgeon Ben Carson left sponge in patient's brain!' Did he really? What a klutz! Good thing he's part of Trump's bestest people cabinet these days and not doing brain surgery.

And on March 27th 2016--Donald Trump defended National Enquirer as an accurate news source Sunday, days after the tabloid, which has endorsed Trump, claimed that Ted Cruz has five mistresses.

.....and Ted Cruz has never forgiven Trump for all the jokes and pranks he played on him back in those halcyon days of yore with both of them vying to win the 2016 republican nomination. Just kidding. They're all good. Ted Cruz can take a joke at his own expense, the 5 mistresses joke or the Ted Cruz's dad was in on the JFK assassination joke. Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha!Ha! Very very funny.

Why are you picking on the National Enquirer? They helped get your boy elected.

18margd
Out 5, 2020, 9:09 am

There's always a tweet:

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump | 9:09 AM · Oct 24, 2014:

The Ebola doctor who just flew to N.Y. from West Africa and went on the subway, bowling and dining is a very SELFISH man-should have known!

19rastaphrog
Out 5, 2020, 9:30 am

20lriley
Out 5, 2020, 12:55 pm

Not to be left out and always willing to take one for the team Kayleigh McEnaney new inductee into the Rose Garden Massacre Hall of Fame--she's positive too.

21kiparsky
Out 5, 2020, 12:58 pm

>20 lriley: They even got the intern? Is no one safe?

22lriley
Out 5, 2020, 1:06 pm

#21--maybe some of those who started calling in sick a few days ago but probably not all of them either. I don't think they're making people wear masks even now inside the White House. Their anti-mask shaming ways still rules everything. If Donald says it's no good--it's no good and until he says it's okay--it's no good.

23Cubby.R.S.
Out 5, 2020, 2:40 pm

>22 lriley:

Anti-mask shaming. Hahaha, you folks are too much.

24Limelite
Out 5, 2020, 2:45 pm

>15 Cubby.R.S.: >23 Cubby.R.S.:

Ha ha it should look like Nat Enq stuff based on what the covidiots are doing. Unfortunately, they're all legitimate news. The kind of stuff you don't allow to intrude into your castle of delusion.

There's no such thing as anti-masking shaming. That's a fake meme/trope to cover up the covidiots' truly anti-social behavior. People who stink tend to cover that up with a lot of perfume, so they can believe they smell good.

Pigs in lipstick are still pigs.

25Limelite
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 3:01 pm

Rose Garden Massacre Update: #9, #10, and #11

These are the latest co-Trumpbidities that we know about.

Bimbo Trump press sec'y., Kayleigh McEnany, releases she's Covid-19 positive. Also, at least two of her staff are, too.

Reporters slam Kayleigh McEnany for ‘endangered lives’ by not quarantining and briefing without a mask By definition, she's a covidiot.
McEnany has flouted CDC guidelines on the deadly virus and ,u>vehemently supported and defended President Donald Trump’s mismanagement of the pandemic.

________________________________________________

BREAKING: CDC updates guidance it had removed: Coronavirus can ‘spread by airborne transmission’ and at even ‘more than 6 feet.’
Finally, after a week that included President Donald Trump, the First Lady, and at least ten others who attended the Rose Garden Supreme Court nominating ceremony for Judge Amy Coney Barrett contracting COVID-19, ,b>the CDC has again quietly updated its guidance to admit what many, including experts, believed for months.
“COVID-19 can sometimes be spread by airborne transmission,” the CDC is now admitting, weeks later.

“There is evidence that under certain conditions, people with COVID-19 seem to have infected others who were more than 6 feet away,” the new guidance reads. “These transmissions occurred within enclosed spaces that had inadequate ventilation. Sometimes the infected person was breathing heavily, for example while singing or exercising.”

“Under these circumstances, scientists believe that the amount of infectious smaller droplet and particles produced by the people with COVID-19 became concentrated enough to spread the virus to other people. The people who were infected were in the same space during the same time or shortly after the person with COVID-19 had left.


26Limelite
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 3:11 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #12

Trump-loving pastor sick with COVID-19 after White House event and DC prayer march.
Pastor Greg Laurie, who leads Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, announced Sunday to his congregation that he had been infected with the potentially deadly virus.
NEWS: @NYMag has confirmed that Pastor Greg Laurie of Harvest Christian Fellowship in Riverside, California has tested POSITIVE for COVID-19. Pastor Laurie was at the Prayer March on the Mall with Mike Pence and Franklin Graham and the ACB Rose Garden event later that day.

— Olivia Nuzzi (@Olivianuzzi) October 5, 2020

27Cubby.R.S.
Out 5, 2020, 3:26 pm

>25 Limelite:

Bimbo Trump press sec'y., Kayleigh McEnany, releases she's Covid-19 positive. Also, at least two of her staff are, too.

Where's Lola to defend poor sweet and brilliant Press Sec'y Kayleigh McEnany from this misogyny?

28kiparsky
Out 5, 2020, 3:30 pm

>27 Cubby.R.S.: How very misogynist of you to presume that a grown woman is not capable of defending herself.

29Cubby.R.S.
Out 5, 2020, 3:35 pm

>28 kiparsky:

She will never see this and she was directly attacked because she is a woman. It is a systemic problem, this misogyny.

30kiparsky
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 3:41 pm

>29 Cubby.R.S.: How do you know? Are you saying she can't read? Shame, shame.

Or are you saying that people who get Covid just drop dead immediately? We all know that's ridiculous, please stop.

31Limelite
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 4:01 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #13 and #14

White House housekeepers test positive for COVID-19 after virus continues to spread. #13 and #14

Obviously, the area in and around the WH is a Covid-19 hotspot. Since Trump's WH physician is unwilling and unable to enforce a quarantine on him, it's time for the D.C. Public Health Dept. to intervene and be the health authority that manages the Rose Garden Massacre fallout for the protection of the entire city. White House servicing staff go home every night from an environment where mask wearing is denigrated and discouraged. Many go home on public transportation carrying their (obviously now, viral loads with them.

Combine that behavioral knowledge with the CDC's reinstated scientific knowledge of airborne infection well beyond social distancing distance and you've let loose dozens (at least) of "typhoid Marys" onto the D.C. gen pub.

Dr. Sean Conely is behaving in a medically irresponsible manner in complete defiance of infectious medicine basics by letting Trump out of Walter Reed isolation.

32kiparsky
Out 5, 2020, 4:06 pm

>31 Limelite: That would be the sane thing to do. What the insane nutbags are going to do instead is to irresponsibly discharge a still-contagious patient back to the White House, ensuring that this center of contagion will main maximally active.

I have to wonder what the point of this might be. Maybe he realized that he hadn't got Pence yet, and he wants a chance to be sure?

33Limelite
Editado: Out 5, 2020, 4:15 pm

>32 kiparsky:

In view of what we know about malignant narcissism in relation to Trump's exhibited personality, I'd say he bullied Conely and threatened him with being fired if he didn't let him go back to the Cult palace and climb back onto the throne in the Oval Office. A loss of status to a sycophant is a social death sentence. So he capitulated.

Further, recognizing Trump's etc., he survives on pulling stunts. His campaign rallies are really pep hate rallies; his speeches are actually incoherent rants for his base's consumption; his negotiation is no more than corrupt quid pro quo dealing, and his political agenda is no more than the rumblings of his gut emitted aloud.

The point is: He's a stuntman as well as a conman. Nothing more

34lriley
Out 5, 2020, 6:55 pm

Among my takeaways in Trump's coronavirus debacle is that people like Scott Atlas and Sean Conley don't really give a fuck about their medical degrees or reputations or someday being accused of malpractice. Ronny Jackson would be another example but he's running for congress in a very safe republican district in Texas so that doesn't matter to him anymore anyway. But Trump surrounds himself with pliable and ambitious medicos who would do or say anything just to please him and who have no problem deceiving or gaslighting the public.

Maybe Trump will win his battle with the virus but one of the hallmarks of this virus so far is its own ability to deceive and its unpredictability is another. There are literally hundreds of thousands of cases of people who had a good day or two--thought they were out of the woods and then crashed. If that happens he better hope someone is right there to save his ass. He's had some oxygen issues and that is the thing more than any other that gets someone into the hospital and keeps them there until there's a pretty good chance it's not going to recur again. They do have a hospital at the White House but he'd probably be better off staying at Walter Reed.

Somehow I think this is what Donald wants and what Donald wants Donald gets.

35LolaWalser
Out 5, 2020, 7:19 pm

So... it was all for this?

‘Don’t Be Afraid of Covid,’ Trump Tweets While West Wing Outbreak Grows

36lriley
Out 5, 2020, 7:22 pm

#35--yeah 210,000 people are dead under his watch and he thinks its nothing.

37LolaWalser
Out 5, 2020, 7:26 pm

I'm worried that he (and his trumpoidals) will now trivialise it even more, leading to even more infection and death.

How's that Biden lead looking today...

38Limelite
Out 5, 2020, 7:58 pm

>37 LolaWalser:

Rest easy.

But VOTE EARLY (and often)! The parenthetical is for the Trump Cultists who cruise around here.

39lriley
Out 5, 2020, 8:58 pm

#37--they look for any reason to trivialize it. The masks and social distancing saves lives. The not doing unnecessary things or not making unnecessary trips for b.s. reasons helps a lot as well but that's really the hardest thing--not the masks. I get the cabin fever thing especially if you're living in a small apartment in a large city and are use to a lot of action.....and you're young and you want to do things. The masks really are easy---I don't understand why it's an issue for so many people. They take chances with their own lives but they're also taking chances with other people's lives. Some people don't really give a shit about other people and/or don't realize that the things they do can follow them home. There are loads of dumb and selfish Americans.

Trump and his party though have also muddied the waters from the beginning of this with all kinds of misinformation. They disregard scientific fact to tell their followers what they want to hear. Hopefully they're going to get hit by a tsunami on election day.

40Limelite
Out 5, 2020, 9:42 pm

Trump vs. Science

The first thing Trump did when he returned to WH tonight from Walter Reed was pull off his facemask.

41Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 12:54 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #15 & #16

Two more Trump military aides test positive for coronavirus. The third active duty military aide tested positive last May.
NEWS: One of the president’s military aides, Coast Guard aide Jayna McCarron, has coronavirus, sources tell me. And so does one of the president’s valets, who is also active duty military, and traveled with the president last week.

— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) October 6, 2020

42Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 1:05 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre Skews D.C. Disease Statistics

Trump’s super-spreader event is so substantial it’s skewing Washington, DC’s COVID-19 data.
Topher Spiro
@TopherSpiro
Here you can see the #TrumpCluster in DC. Positive rate is rising rapidly.



President Donald Trump’s Saturday event in the Rose Garden to announce the appointment of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court has been linked to at least 21 people with the coronavirus and 2 have been hospitalized so far.
Obviously, I've arrived late to the record keeping, or additional WH service staff infections have not broken through the headlines.

43Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 1:52 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #17 & #18

NY Times White House reporter and wife infected with COVID-19: ‘The collateral damage is going to be significant’.
Michael D. Shear, a White House reporter for the New York Times who has tested positive for the COVID-19 coronavirus. And Shear and others in the media are noting that Shear’s wife has tested positive as well.
With Trump's return, risks rise in the West Wing

The West Wing, "The Office," is an 18th C. architectural relic, a labyrinth of narrow hallways and tiny offices accommodating up to 3 persons at a time. It's a hive of infection and re-infection due to overcrowding in workdays that can last at least 12 hours on a regular basis,

MSNBC broadcast footage recorded today of hazmat clad workers aiming UV guns into space, attempting to disinfect the air in the press room. Now that the CDC re-posted the warning about airborne infection, countermanding Trump's orders that forced them to take it down after they initially made that information public, we see workers destroying airborne virus in the WH, a week after we learn it is "ground zero" for novel coronavirus.

Any reporter who has to crowd into a venue to get the latest news or attend a gaggle should don an N-95 mask, gloves, and a disposable gown for their own protection, knowing that Trump, his press secretary, and most of his aides refuse to don masks because "position and privilege" make them immune, apparently. In Trump's own words, "Maybe I'm Immune" To COVID-19 Upon Return to White House
Facebook has removed a post from President Trump where he falsely claimed COVID-19 is less deadly than the flu. In his post, Trump suggested that 100,000 Americans die from the flu each year. This is in direct contradiction to CDC estimates, which puts the annual flu death toll range between 12,000 and 61,000 since 2010.

According to the CDC, more Americans have died from COVID-19 since January than the previous five flu seasons combined.
(SNIP)
. . .the White House has declined offers from The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) to conduct contact tracing with regards to President Trump's positive COVID-19 diagnosis.

USA Today first reported that the White House rebuffed an offer on Monday from the CDC to track down and notify individuals who were exposed to the coronavirus outbreak linked to Trump, several top aides, and other high-profile individuals connected to the president.

44kiparsky
Out 6, 2020, 3:03 pm

My only question at this point is, does anyone know of a reputable crowdfunding campaign to help pay the bills for any white house staff who choose to stay away from that madhouse? There's no way those folks should be forced to go anywhere near that place with a crazed contagious nutbag on the loose.

45LolaWalser
Out 6, 2020, 3:13 pm

It's in the army now.

46Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 5:45 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #19

CORRECTION: RGM #22 I stand corrected by multiple citation in various media tallies.

White House reveals the fourth press staffer tested positive for COVID-19.
New York Times reporter Maggie Haberman reported Tuesday afternoon that just hours after a third White House press aide tested positive for COVID-19, a fourth press staffer did.
After USCG, Vice-Admiral tests positive, "The Joint Chiefs of Staff are also in quarantine," remaining at their homes.

Trump's reckless disregard has now posed a direct threat to American security beyond his 3.5 years of being an existential one.

CNN also reported that multiple aides said they were worried they were unnecessarily put at risk over the past week.

"This place is a cesspool!" -- WH staffer to Axios.
'It's insane': White House staffers are mad about Trump's diagnosis and terrified now that he's back from the hospital while still infected. . .

47Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 5:52 pm

Rose Garden Massacre: Details on 4th Journalist Covid-19 Positive

White House coronavirus outbreak may have spread to North Carolina due to Ivanka event.
A new COVID-19 outbreak chain might have just spread to North Carolina following a campaign stop last week featuring Ivanka Trump.

“I tested positive for COVID-19 this past Friday while on assignment at the White House the weekend before covering the Supreme Court nominee announcement in the Rose Garden,” photojournalist Al Drago tweeted.

Joe Bruno, who describes himself as “good friends” with Drago, noted that photojournalist had covered an Ivanka Trump event in the Charlotte area. Bruno spoke to the assistant health director in Gaston County, who says they are conducting contact tracing.
The assistant health director of Gaston County tells me the White House is conducting contact tracing for this situation and is reaching out to potential contacts, including Gaston County residents

— Joe Bruno (@JoeBrunoWSOC9) October 6, 2020

48Limelite
Out 6, 2020, 7:01 pm

BREAKING: Rose Garden Massacre #23

Senior advisor and prominent presidential aide, Stephen Miller tests positive for Covid -19. His wife is also a WH staffer to VP Pence. No announcement of results from any virus test she may have taken.
Miller, a far-right nativist, has been behind many of the Trump administration’s harshest proposals to curtail immigration, including legal pathways to citizenship. His wife, Katie Miller, also serves in the White House, as the press secretary to Vice President Mike Pence.

49kiparsky
Out 6, 2020, 8:08 pm

Not to worry though, it's just a cold, right?

50jjwilson61
Out 7, 2020, 11:35 am

Katie Miller tested positive back in May. Doesn't mean she can't get it again though.

52LolaWalser
Out 7, 2020, 12:03 pm

Hurrah, hurrah!

(that's for Stephen Miller... in particular... sweeter than even Trumpo's diagnosis 10000 times)

53Cubby.R.S.
Out 7, 2020, 1:46 pm

>49 kiparsky:

Perhaps,

The common cold is normally a mild illness that resolves without treatment in a few days. And because of its mild nature, most cases are s-elf-diagnosed. However, infection with rhinovirus or one of the other viruses responsible for common cold symptoms can be serious in some people. Complications from a cold can cause serious illnesses and, yes, even death—particularly in people who have a weak immune system.

For example, studies have shown that patients who have undergone a bone marrow transplant can have a higher likelihood of developing a serious respiratory infection. While rhinovirus is not thought to be the main cause of this, other viruses that are associated with symptoms of the common cold, such as RSV, adenovirus and parainfluenza virus, are.

https://www.newsweek.com/common-cold-deadly-1479824

54Earthling1
Out 7, 2020, 3:10 pm

This member has been suspended from the site.

55John5918
Out 7, 2020, 3:18 pm

>54 Earthling1: putting any limits whatsoever on immigration, which the entire world does except the U.S.

You are joking. Have you ever seen the hoops that people are made to jump through to gain legal entry to the USA?

56Earthling1
Out 7, 2020, 3:36 pm

This member has been suspended from the site.

57Molly3028
Out 7, 2020, 5:03 pm

I wish GOP Congressional reps and the prime time FOX News
personalities could see themselves through the eyes of the people
they were before they became trump's cult followers. Being
family members of people who do that kind of a 180 degree flip
must be a mind-bending experience. Claudia Conway's 2020
experiences immediately come to mind.

58Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 7, 2020, 6:04 pm

Progressives are what they accuse Trump of being. You need to wake up, you are being lied to. We can argue about policy later, do not let this nation fall victim to the predatory left.

We are so close to exposing the criminal politicians, you can argue policy later.

59Limelite
Editado: Out 7, 2020, 10:20 pm

>58 Cubby.R.S.:

That is so far 'round the bend, all relation to reality is erased by conspiracy, aka, fakery and foolery which has been debunked more than once.

Progressives strike fear in the hearts of RWNJs because they speak truth to tin foil hats. And more and more of them are taking those hats off and waking to the light of that truth and out of the cave of right wing abhorent lying that appeals to people's worst instincts.

60amysisson
Out 7, 2020, 10:48 pm

>58 Cubby.R.S.:

"Predatory left"??? Oh yes, we liberals are out to get people!

61lriley
Out 7, 2020, 11:18 pm

#60--it's true that we should eat the rich. Yum yum.

62John5918
Editado: Out 8, 2020, 1:30 am

>56 Earthling1: there are 50-90 million Mexicans in America

That's an interesting claim. Of the 330 million people in the USA, up to 27% are Mexican citizens? Wikipedia puts the 2018 figure as being 37 million (11%) of people with Mexican ancestry, ie not only Mexican citizens but US citizens of Mexican ancestry. Given that the USA is a nation of immigrants, and that after several hundred years of immigration there would be hardly any US citizens without some foreign ancestry except a few Native Americans, and that Mexico is your neighbour, and that some parts of the USA were actually Mexico until annexed by force (remember the Alamo!), it hardly seems like a large percentage. Wikipedia gives 2017 figures which suggest there are more people of German descent (13%), and that British and Irish are not far behind with 9% and 10% respectively. You definitely need to clamp down on those Europeans, who actually make up nearly 60% of people in your country. How did they all get in?

I still get a surprise whenever I am in the USA when I ask someone, "Where are you from?" expecting them to say Chicago or New York or California or wherever, and the reply is Hungary or Germany or some other European nation. More than once it's been on the tip of my tongue to say, "You speak very good English for a Hungarian!" before realising that they are talking about where their ancestors are from rather than where they themselves are from. So with 13% of people from Germany, 9% from Britain and 10% from Ireland, are you really surprised that 11% (not 27%) are from Mexico?

63Limelite
Editado: Out 8, 2020, 4:25 pm

>54 Earthling1:>
"harshest proposals to curtail immigration,"

This is impartial news? Harsh proposal? Who's being harsh? The person who follows the law or the person who breaks it? This is stated as though putting any limits whatsoever on immigration, which the entire world does except the U.S., is somehow harsh and mean and evil.

You need to exercise some critical skills when you read. Don't simply follow what you want to hear.
That's the harshest turn around and bite you in the a$$ post I've ever had the pleasure to laugh at on LT.

Thanks, >62 John5918:, for making my day!

64aspirit
Editado: Out 9, 2020, 5:20 pm

"White House coronavirus outbreak may have exposed thousands from Atlanta (Georgia) to Minnesota"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/10/07/officials-exposed-...

Trump's White House refuses to approve CDC contact tracing and notifications of people who might have been exposed by staff (despite how contact tracing is a globally recognized public safety tool that can help prevent viral spread during the pandemic). To create a public record, news organizations are doing their own tracing unofficially.

USA Today reporters examined hundreds of images from news and social media and looked through attendance logs to identify who came in contact with the more than 20 ceremony attendees who have since been reported as testing positive for COVID-19.

At least 6,000 people attended meetings, rallies and other gatherings with them within a week of the Supreme Court nomination ceremony Sept. 26 in the White House Rose Garden, pegged as a potential “superspreader” event.

More than 120 people came dangerously close to Trump and the others during that week, the USA TODAY investigation found. They traveled, shook hands or mingled in tight, enclosed spaces with those who later tested positive for COVID-19. Dozens of others had physical contact or spent long periods talking in closed spaces with Trump and his aides.

Epidemiologists and public health experts said USA TODAY’s analysis shows that the White House outbreak has put more people, in more places, at risk than has been previously known.


corrected a pronoun

65Limelite
Out 9, 2020, 4:47 pm

>64 aspirit:

This could be the "biglyest" superspreader event on record in this country. Trump Family will be known as the Covid-19 Death Panel. Rose Garden Massacre may not be hyperbole at all.
_____________________________________________
The Villages Villagers Are Getting Frightened of Pence's Looming Visit

Even the Trump cultists are demonstrating creeping fear and suspicion. Golf carts aren't as numerous on the streets, a rise in face mask wearing is noted, and since Trump contracted Covid-19, local resteraunteurs registered a patronage drop.

MAGA-Crazy Retirement Village Now Fears COVID—and Pence.

“The virus was a hoax here until Trump got it,” one resident said.
On Saturday, Pence is slated to stop by the 55-and-older community in Sumter County as part of a campaign bus tour through the Sunshine State. The VP would arrive in The Villages as President Donald Trump’s support with senior citizens has shown signs of a drop-off in recent months. . .

. . .the vice president’s proximity to the growing number of White House staffers who have contracted the virus after a now notorious Rose Garden event has some Villagers—and infectious disease experts—running scared.

66Limelite
Out 9, 2020, 4:53 pm

Rose Garden Massacre an Official Superspreader Event

Fauci: The data is clear — ‘we had a super-spreader event in the White House.’
"We had a superspreader event at the White House," Fauci tells @CBSNewsRadio. "The data speak for themselves." pic.twitter.com/svnwkfr6Ag

— Steven Portnoy (@stevenportnoy) October 9, 2020

67Limelite
Out 10, 2020, 11:48 pm

Rose Garden Massacre: Now They're Coming for the Children

2 Students, Teacher Tested Positive At School Attended By Amy Coney Barrett’s Children.
School parents learned of positive tests for COVID-19 12 days after Barrett and her children attended the Rose Garden event.
. . .Trump tweeted that he and first lady Melania Trump had tested positive. Both were at the Rose Garden event, and Barrett’s children sat with the First Lady without masks and social distancing.
(SNIP)
It was also unclear when the Barrett children were tested. Rapid-result tests taken too soon after exposure can often be inaccurate.
(SNIP)
At least 35 people linked to the Rose Garden event or those who attended it have tested positive for COVID-19. . .Extremely few people attending wore masks, nor observed social distancing guidelines. . .close to 200 people attending say shoulder to shoulder in the Rose Garden.
In related news, Chris Christie discharged from hospital today.

68margd
Editado: Out 12, 2020, 12:36 pm

09 26 2020: White House Rose Garden ceremony where Trump announced his Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett.
10 01 2020: Mike Lee has symptoms
10 02 2020: Mike Lee tests positive
10 12 2020: Mike Lee speaks without a mask at ACB's nomination hearing*, surrounded by colleagues 70+ years old...

* In my limited experience, ventilation didn't seem to be a high priority in hearing rooms.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Sen. Mike Lee spoke without a mask at Amy Coney Barrett's Supreme Court hearing less than 2 weeks after testing positive for the coronavirus
Jake Lahut | 10/12/2020
https://www.businessinsider.com/mike-lee-utah-maskless-hearing-covid-19-positive...

69margd
Out 12, 2020, 12:53 pm

Manu Raju (CNN) @mkraju | 11:53 AM · Oct 12, 2020:
Outside the Barrett hearing, Mark Meadows stopped before the camera and was asked by @kristin__wilson to put his mask on while answering. He said he was happy to talk, but not while wearing a mask. “I’m not going to talk through a mask.” And then he left.

Meadows Takes Masks Off Around Reporters
0:12 ( https://twitter.com/therecount/status/1315683381187932160 )
From The Recount

------------------------------------------------------------------

...Meadows is known as the person who accompanies Trump daily most closely, other than Secret Service.
- Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing | 12:21 PM · Oct 12, 2020

70Limelite
Out 12, 2020, 5:31 pm

Rose Garden Massacre; There's Always More

Conservative Charlie Sykes: Trump’s 2020 closing campaign argument ‘depraved indifference’ for hosting super-spreader events. “Depraved indifference” is. . .
The term is used to describe a type of murder that reveals conduct “so wanton, so deficient in a moral sense of concern, so lacking in regard for the life or lives of others, and so blameworthy as to warrant the same criminal liability as that which the law imposes upon a person who intentionally causes a crime.”
(SNIP)
. . .(Trump is) "not reaching out beyond that base. He’s going to safe spaces like Fox News, the Rush Limbaugh Show. It’s almost like he’s in palliative care."
(SNIP)
Sykes noted that with 40,000 to 50,000 new infections daily, Trump holding superspreader rallies aren’t helpful in defending his record on handling the virus.
(His) son is in Wisconsin, hosting a superspreader event.

71Limelite
Out 14, 2020, 6:13 pm

Rose Garden Massacre: Include Barron Trump Among the Infected
The East Wing of the White House on Wednesday revealed that Barron Trump had coronavirus.
After initially testing negative on his first test, Barron later tested positive. Evidently he had to feel symptoms which elicited a second test. Or, we now know that he's been regularly tested and finally turned positive. In spite of claims that he remained asymptomatic, there's little reason -- based on Trump's history as a liar, his wife's history of secrecy, and the WH reputation for obfuscation and misleading statements -- to believe that Barron was symptom free.

We're assured that he is fine and that his mother, whose symptoms were flu-like, now tests negative for Covid -19. Keep in mind, information about what tests for infection were administered has not been provided, nor have we had any indication that Trump has tested negative since his severe case.

Detailed accurate information regarding the health of the Trump family is vital now that the first confirmed case of reinfection in the US is proven.

722wonderY
Out 14, 2020, 8:01 pm

Trish Scalia, wife of Labor Secretary, Eugene Scalia, tested positive for Covid19 with mild symptoms.

73margd
Out 14, 2020, 8:16 pm

>72 2wonderY: Both attended the Rose Garden event seated in the second row, directly behind Melania and next to Kellyanne Conway.

38 WH-orbit positive now!

- Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing | 9:50 PM · Oct 13, 2020

74lriley
Out 15, 2020, 8:07 pm

Chris Christie apparently spent 7 days in an ICU--he seems to have gotten the point about not attending superspreader events where people go maskless and don't socially distance or hanging out in small rooms doing debate prep with contagious people (e.g. Trump).

75davidgn
Out 19, 2020, 7:18 pm

Kellyanne Conway’s 15-year-old daughter says she is seeking emancipation. Here’s what that process might look like.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/ct-life-claudia-conway-emancipation-tt...
Good luck, kid.

76JGL53
Out 19, 2020, 8:11 pm

> 75

Too late. Her asshole of a mom has already infected her with the Covid.

She should have run away when she was 14.

77aspirit
Out 20, 2020, 5:23 pm

Forty (40) people have tested positive for COVID-19 in connection with the September 26 White House event, says Laurie Garrett.

https://twitter.com/Laurie_Garrett/status/1318574743851814913

78Limelite
Out 20, 2020, 9:30 pm

Folks, let's be honest, the Rose Garden Massacre has moved out of the WH backyard and is now out on tour, taking to the road, pausing here and there, while Patient The Zero rants and spits all over his fan base at one rally and another.

I expect we'll see a spike in new cases just before and around Election Day at every stop the Trump "Typhoid' Train makes in the next 10-14 days.

If Joe Biden doesn't insist on a Plexiglass barrier between him and Trump at the next and last debate like Kamala Harris did before going onstage with Pence for their debate, then she better be prepared to put her president pants on November 4th. Just in case.

79lriley
Out 21, 2020, 12:36 am

#78---Well I'll be voting for Biden dead or alive. Harris isn't all that great in my estimation but she'd still be something of an improvement over Joe. Personally if I were Joe I'd want that barrier to go from floor to ceiling.

And I hear Melania is still coughing her lungs out.

80Cubby.R.S.
Out 21, 2020, 8:41 am

Los Angeles County has/had about 30,000 more cases than New York City but New York City has 17,000 more deaths. Cuomo Writes a book about being a leader during a Pandemic? The EU is on the rise from lockdowns, quickly surpassing the U.S. in cases, now people have a virus that hasn't weakened yet, and they don't want lockdowns anymore -- leadership?

Literally, you all have it mixed up. 1. In his non-dictatorial fashion allowed States to handle their business, some did well and some poorly, but overall our rise has been steady. 2. Democrats did not want lock-downs, wanted a vaccination, and said to follow the science -- now they want none of those things because "the scientists can't be trusted."

Whatever.

81lriley
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 10:17 am

#80--this is a really shallow way of looking at what happened in NYC. New York was the first epicenter of the virus you know. While the rest of the country watched and while the POTUS did little to help literally thousands of people were being hospitalized over a short period of time for a virus that at that point in time literally no one anywhere had a treatment for. No one really knew anything and hospitals were being deluged with patients. What do you do with a virus that you don't how to treat? You experiment and sometimes you win and a lot of the time you lose. But no one had figured out proning. The Potus was going on and on about his fish bowl cleaner hydroxychloroquine treatment---remdesivir was an absolute ? mark and people were dying like flies--including quite a number of first responders and hospital staff.

I've never been a fan of Cuomo's and I've never voted for him. That said his daily briefings were aimed at unifying the citizens of the state and informing them with real data and information quite unlike all the misinformation and denials we were getting at the time from Trump and his apparatchiks. Did Andrew make mistakes---I can think of two major ones---the nursing home debacle which I'm pretty certain he asked the advice of medical experts. That said there wasn't a lot to go on. No other state was facing that issue then. Italy and France were blundering around too. His second mistake was listening to Trump and his team (including Fauci) about not needing to wear masks. Fauci has since done a 180 on that--Trump stupidly clings to his ignorance.

Here is a major point though---Cuomo acted like he gave a fuck and took pretty much all this death and dying personally. Never got a shred or iota of that from Trump. What I really got from Trump and a lot of republican pols was our dead were blue staters who deserved what they got. Of course now we all know (or most people anyway have figured it out) that this virus doesn't give a rat's ass what state you live in or who you vote for or how close to God you are.

More than anything else his neglect in handling this pandemic is the reason Trump is down in the polls and is going to lose. The Covid economy is just another tangent of that. He fucked this up every possible way he could. Before this is over there will be hundreds of thousands of deaths to lay at his door. This is a failure to lead in a crisis plain and simple.

82Cubby.R.S.
Out 21, 2020, 10:32 am

>81 lriley:

I don't know about they didn't help NY thing, they sent all kinds of hospital ships and equipment that was never used.

So Cuomo says this, then --

But on Monday, Cuomo took to an unlikely venue -- The Howard Stern Show -- to offer genuine praise for the president's response to the coronavirus in his home state.

"He has delivered for New York. He has," Cuomo said of Trump, in response to a question from Stern about whether the president has really done anything of consequence to help.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/politics/he-has-delivered-for-new-york-cuomo-pra...

Now you call Cuomo unifying when he says Trump is responsible for every death. in the words of our favorite sweet potato - c'mon man!

Your news isn't giving you all the facts on this, and is in fact creating divisive messaging to remove Trump from office. Reason: they are also complicit in the crimes and disinformation that THEY not Trump have been dealing the American people. If you are lucky enough to get 4 more years of Trump, I think a lot of so called reputable sources will have had to face the music.

83lriley
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 12:04 pm

#82--That hospital ship was not for Covid patients and if you know anything about ships---that ship is huge and it's all metal surface it's not hard to understand why-(covid gets onto metal surfaces and spreads around and once it gets in the air system it's time to decommission the boat because you might never get it out)--keep in mind that aircraft carrier--Covid went through that ship infecting sailors like no tomorrow. The Navy only wanted non-Covid patients that were excess to the NY hospital system (and when you're talking about the NY hospital system--there are the public and private hospitals and they all have a bottom line and the privates particularly are there to make as much $ as possible and the publics are always going short on funds--this is our bullshit health care system at its finest---this is why as well an M4A system would have been able to deal with a pandemic a lot better than the shit for profit system we have now) and those excess patients needed to come with a lot of paperwork because the Navy wasn't taking chances. So the hospital boat just came with too many issues attached and was useless.

84Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 1:51 pm

>83 lriley:

But, we are performing better than many other, honest or at least countries capable of providing reasonable data at this point. NY lost jobs in the healthcare sector, because they shut everything down too long. Sweden is an example of what people can do if you just let them make their own choices. All of this said, it's still not Trump's fault. COVID does not pretend to care about what sort of healthcare system you have, and it has a less than 1% fatality rate at this point. It had to run through our systems, we know that now. If you take all of the early data, compile a likely quicker spread and factor in the decreased viral load -- it's the flu. It's time to stop pretending that Trump could've saved more lives and admit that perhaps the Democrats would've done even worse, never made ventilators, wouldn't have pursued a vaccination so quickly, etc.

Let's not forget Cuomo's admission.

85lriley
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 4:22 pm

#84--Nonsense--like our neighbor Canada hasn't reached 10,000 dead and we're working on 225,000. Is that your idea of success? Canada has a health care system which covers every citizen and makes it so much easier to coordinate through a pandemic because pretty much everyone is on the same page.

Sweden's model was shit from day 1. It didn't work. There are only two other countries that have crossed the 100,000 dead barrier---Brazil and India. Both run by autocrats and India has a lot more people and a lot more congestion in its major cities than we do.

86Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 6:10 pm

>85 lriley:
Sweden has 6000 deaths.

Canada is spiking and will probably pass the average State in deaths by the end of terrorizing their citizens. They are as populated as Texas and much more sparsely so...so we shall see if their measures simply delayed the inevitable and to what end? Create psychological damage to the people?

Scientifically speaking, lockdowns have not been healthy for mental well being.

States with highest death rate per 100,000:
New Jersey 183
New York 171
Massachusetts 141
Connecticut 127
Louisiana 124
Rhode Island 109
Mississippi 107

What do you think these places have in common? I'll tell you a hint, only the last one of the States with over 100 per is different.

87jjwilson61
Out 21, 2020, 8:11 pm

>86 Cubby.R.S.: What those states have in common is that they were hit early before the doctors had more effective treatments.

88Cubby.R.S.
Out 21, 2020, 8:17 pm

>87 jjwilson61:
Wrong. They can make any excuse they want, and although that is the Democrat way, having Democrat Governors and authoritarian tendencies is the answer.

89jjwilson61
Out 21, 2020, 8:42 pm

>88 Cubby.R.S.: I bow to your infinite wisdom. Not.

90Limelite
Out 21, 2020, 8:57 pm

>88 Cubby.R.S.:

Stop braying you sound like the south end of a north-bound donkey. You "misremember" and/or omit what is pertinent fact in considering pandemic response in order to put a spin on the black and white facts you think you can spread enough right wing pancake make-up on to turn them orange so they match your Nero.

I've met doofusses who know better than to try that.

91margd
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 9:58 pm

>86 Cubby.R.S.: Most Cdns live near s border so density not so different from states. Worst spots for COVID were big cities like Vancouver, Toronto, and Montreal with international airports. Not so much spread beyond as Cdns tend to be observant of PH directives, plus as Iriley observed, universal healthcare provides for testing and care if needed. My impression is that social safety net is better but the economy is certainly not unscathed... Last I looked Canada was initially on same rate of increase as US but flattened its curve to about half that of US per capita.

92Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 21, 2020, 10:37 pm

>90 Limelite:

Just saying those things doesn't suddenly change the facts. Most of the top deaths per 100k are all run by Democrats and it's about 15 of 20, most on the upper end.

>91 margd:

Canada had seen a spike a couple of days ago. Trajectory unknown.

93lriley
Out 22, 2020, 1:09 am

Cub Scout does not want to hear facts for sure. NYC was the laboratory where the medicos in the United States first really grappled with the Covid-19 issue on a large scale. All anyone has to do is look at the numbers for the case numbers for March and April. It's not hard to figure out. History or memory are inconveniences for him. The call went out fairly early from Gov. Cuomo to medicos in other states to come and help and many did and with experience comes knowledge. We did not have proning or medical treatments back then--what we had was an overwhelmed hospital system that could not handle the number of cases it was seeing every day. That is why people died in large numbers in NYC in March, April and May....and it was a nightmare not only for residents of the city but also Long Island and in the outer boroughs of Westchester and Rockland particularly but it was also a horror for the people of the rest of the state in its entirety. Cuomo right now has a 67% approval rating in NYS---maybe as high as he has ever had. For months on end he was on TV for an hour, hour and a half, two hours every day including weekends talking to the people of the state. Cuomo made a point over that time and was consistent on it that actual lives mattered more than the economy and whether right wingers like it or not most of the population wanted to hear exactly that. Every day he would announce the new death toll and you could see very clearly how it upset him. Did he make a mistake on the nursing homes?--yeah he did. But you know that should not have been his call at all--it should have been the President's call from day one to lead the nation's response to the pandemic but Trump refused to lead--he left it up to 50 different governor's to figure shit out on their own and Donald's been a roadblock to any kind of coherent strategy that doesn't put the economy above the lives and safety of the population. He's never given a shit how many people have died. Still thinks he can wish it away or that the virus is in its final stages when the numbers of cases are exploding all over. If you wonder why Cuomo has a 67% positivity rating and Trump is running 36 points behind Biden in NYS it's because Donald was nowhere to be found when he was needed. He abnegated in his duty as leader of the nation. He was a coward and a liar when challenged with this problem.

By the way I still don't care for Cuomo's political views all that much and I probably won't vote for him next time around. I'll find a third party person most likely. That said I can appreciate that he put the real effort into facing this pandemic head on. He didn't shirk his duty to the citizens of the state.

94margd
Editado: Out 22, 2020, 4:36 am

>92 Cubby.R.S.: Canada had seen a spike a couple of days ago. Trajectory unknown.

Wish it wasn't so, but EU, US, Canada--all of us in the N Hemisphere, but some more than others--are in for a winter of hurt with this apparently seasonal virus... According to Michael Mina (Harvard epidemiologist), "Winter is coming! If we do not get this virus under control now, we are in for a perfect and terrible storm..." https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1313879257202995200.html

Mina's graph of US cases March-October :(
( https://twitter.com/michaelmina_lab/status/1319119516517924864/photo/1 )

Watch and weep:
Eric Feigl-Ding (epidemiologist / economist)@DrEricDing | 1:10 PM · Oct 21, 2020:
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1318962769513881600
BREATHTAKING—Watch this animation of #COVID19 spread across US from March 1st - October 15th in a 23 second time-lapse. This represents ~8 million cases. So much could have been avoided, especially the summer and new fall surges...

As for how the US response compares to other countries, unfortunately not well according to Columbia U study:

“130,000 – 210,000 AVOIDABLE COVID-19 DEATHS – AND COUNTING – IN THE U.S.”
Irwin Redlener, MD; Jeffrey D. Sachs, PhD; Sean Hansen, MPA; Nathaniel Hupert, MD, MPH
National Center for Disaster Preparedness, Columbia University
October 21, 2020 (13 p)
https://ncdp.columbia.edu/custom-content/uploads/2020/10/Avoidable-COVID-19-Deat...

Overview
This report looks at the staggering and disproportionate nature of COVID-19 fatalities in the United States, which now ranks first in the world in the total number of fatalities, to estimate how many deaths were “avoidable.” With more than 217,000... lives lost, and a proportional mortality rate twice that of neighboring Canada and more than fifty times that of Japan -- a country with a much older population than the U.S. – the United States has turned a global crisis into a devastating tragedy.

Through comparative analysis and applying proportional mortality rates, we estimate that at least 130,000 deaths and perhaps as many as 210,000 could have been avoided with earlier policy interventions and more robust federal coordination and leadership.

Even with the dramatic recent appearance of new COVID-19 waves globally, the abject failures of U.S. government policies and crisis messaging persist. U.S. fatalities have remained disproportionately high throughout the pandemic when compared to even other high-mortality countries... The inability of the U.S. to mitigate the pandemic is especially stark when contrasted with the response of high-income nations, such as South Korea, Japan, Australia, Germany, France, and Canada, as well as low- and middle-income countries as varied as Thailand, Pakistan, Honduras, and Malaysia. All of these nations have had greater success in protecting their populations from the impact of the coronavirus.

Given the United States’ unique social and political realities, we recognize that it might have been particularly challenging to implement the same caliber of response as South Korea and Japan, both of which maintain centralized unitary governments. Nonetheless, the range of “avoidable deaths” outlined above stems from data illustrating how some of the best performing nations have achieved much greater results in protecting their populations...

95Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 22, 2020, 7:01 am

NY is getting new waves because their lockdowns are not letting the inevitable happen. The virus could never have been stopped, what we have is some pretending they can make it go away.

There are scientifically more dangers to continued lockdowns than in allowing the virus with a decreased viral load pass through the population. NY is failing on all fronts.

People with compromised health will ALWAYS be at risk for ALL coronaviruses.

96LukeRich
Out 22, 2020, 7:24 am

Este utilizador foi removido como sendo spam.

97Limelite
Out 22, 2020, 10:39 pm

>95 Cubby.R.S.:

North Dakota, Republican red as Missouri (whose governor, leading Trump acolyte, ignored CDC guidelines, has Covid-19), , I repeat, North Dakota has the highest per capita infection rate in the world.

That MO governor and his wife are both infected. MO has one of the highest spiking Covid-19 statistics in the country.

You point the finger at blue states as being the major "villains" for having had high infection rates at the beginning of the pandemic when we knew little or nothing about its infectiousness. Since then, and very recently, we learned that coronavirus is infectious airborne, remains infectious on surfaces for 3 days, and remains suspended in rooms for days as well; is infectious from non-symptomatic people; mildly ill pts. remain infectious 10 days after first symptoms; more severe cases remain infectious twice as long, 20 days; reinfection is possible, etc.

You can't hide the FACTS that coronavirus mostly impacted the states with the the highest populations and the most densely populated cities suffered (and some still suffer) most in the first wave. The coastal states with the biggest economies that have the most international transit density. The rich, tax-paying BLUE states that support the disadvantaged suffering RED states misgoverned for years by Republican majorities.

We have had time and waves enough to learn what to do -- don't blindly "open up" (churches, schools, restaurants, economies); mandate wearing of masks; enforce quarantines and lockdowns; test, test, test; provide substantial PPE to first responders; disinfect, disinfect, disinfect; NO gatherings, etc.

Visualize a map of the USA where sensible public health practices were put in place. It should all be one color and low intensity of "hotness" -- especially in low density populated states. If all states, regardless of politics, had put in practice what WE ALL KNOW NOW. In short, America would look educated.

Let's have a look at today's reality. . .the darker the color the "hotter" the state. Yep, the "red" ones where undereducated Republicans control either the executive, or the legislative, or both branches of government haven't learned a damn thing. Just like your Trumpty-Dumpty president.

98Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 23, 2020, 8:35 am

>97 Limelite:

Neat. CDC looks a little different today.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#cases_casesinlast7days

In any case, people will get it. It is now about as lethal as the flu. We cannot continue to pretend it will stop or go away.

99lriley
Out 23, 2020, 8:58 am

#98--in the last 7 days the virus has killed about 6000 Americans. That's like two 9-11's in one week. If another country killed 6000 of our people you'd be up in arms most likely ready to send the troops in wherever but 6000 die from a pandemic that Trump neglects and you don't care. Many others may survive but will end up fighting for their lives and many of them will see their quality of life drop forever and/or will be faced with medical bills that will bankrupt them even in some cases if they have insurance. That you don't care about either.

100Cubby.R.S.
Out 23, 2020, 9:29 am

>99 lriley:

So you want to lock everyone up. Despite all of the warnings over suicides and abuse... The list goes on. But you want to fight the virus. 85% of the people that catch the virus, say they wore masks regularly.

https://nypost.com/2020/10/06/medical-experts-lockdowns-do-more-harm-than-good/

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/15/lockdowns-should-be-last-resort-whos-europe-chie...

101lriley
Out 23, 2020, 9:49 am

#100--Like there were 6000 suicides in the last week? or at all that can be linked all the way back to March when the virus became center stage. Like an open gym or a restaurant or school aren't capable of spreading an airborne virus? The lockdowns occurred for a reason and there would a lot more deaths and a lot more cases if lockdowns hadn't happened....if people didn't wear masks or socially distance. Wearing a mask does not mean you will not get the virus. I don't know how many times that has to be hammered into some people--the main thing wearing a mask does is help you not to spread it to others.

102Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 23, 2020, 12:09 pm

>101 lriley:

Lockdowns were to slow the inevitable spread, not to stop it, but to slow it. The most effective measures of stopping COVID are the same as stopping the spread of the flu, so why continue to wear masks? If a virus is as lethal as an already common virus, why always and forever wear a mask? You think only people without masks are spreading it? Ultimately, the argument for masks should never end and can never end.

They say most do not wear the masks appropriately and many more fidget with them. That can likely increase the likelihood of touching your face more often and I doubt it is any different than dealing with the 1-5 people that do not cover their sneeze or the few that chit chat in the store. I just don't see the point anymore. I do it, because I have to, but honestly, wearing a mask does have to end at some point.

103Limelite
Editado: Out 23, 2020, 8:29 pm

>98 Cubby.R.S.:

We agree on something! Coronavirus in one or more Covid-10 causing mutations is not going to go away. So, it's silly to follow the lead of, and certainly foolish to take the advice of, a president who insists it will go away with the warm weather, it will miraculously disappear, kids are immune, I'm immune, we're all going to be immune, just let Nature take its "herd immunity" without vaccination course.

Herd immunity has never in the history of infectious disease ever occurred without SAFE, EFFECTIVE, MASSIVE MASS vaccination. It has never been achieved against rapidly mutating/adapting RNA viruses -- colds, flu, and Covid-19, EVEN WITH VACCINATION.

It will never even be approachable as long as people refuse to practice personal and environmental public health hygiene, like wearing their damn masks; nor will it be approached as long as a large portion of the harebrained population refuses vaccination.

104Cubby.R.S.
Out 23, 2020, 7:33 pm

>102 Cubby.R.S.:

Or hygiene and courtesy such as covering coughs or sneeze with an elbow. The Damn masks are limited in their effectiveness and if we pretend they're necessary now then there's no reason to not make them a permanent part of life.

105Limelite
Out 23, 2020, 8:49 pm

>104 Cubby.R.S.:

No one with a piece of gray matter where an entire brain ought to be should pretend masks are NOT effective. To pretend otherwise is to believe a myth. Here is a link that will disabuse anyone who can read of that bit of misinformation.

https://www.umms.org/coronavirus/what-to-know/masks/wearing-mask#:~:text=Mask%20....

Only those who don't cover their chins and noses ALL the time they "wear" a mask are going to be ashamed when they infect grandma or the patient on chemo with Covid-19 for being stubbornly stupid. Sorry, macho men, a bandana is NOT a mask. There is only one way to wear a mask so that it works as intended. There is only one design of nose-mouth-chin face-hugging equipment that is defined as a "mask" for public health purposes.

The very latest research is working to establish a quantitative known for mask effectiveness in both protecting others and the wearer from infection. A summary of findings is available, but the research report has yet to be peer reviewed. We're not talking N-95 masks (the medical standard of two-way protection).

Again, sensible people don't need to require ALL masks be N-95 masks to be real protection from contracting and transmitting the virus. Plenty of studies, experts, and infectious disease KNOWN science say masks work.

WEAR YOUR DAMN MASK -- PROPERLY! And remember: Wearing a mask is more comfortable than wearing a ventilator.

106lriley
Editado: Out 24, 2020, 8:55 am

There are significant numbers of people wearing their masks in the wrong way. Some of this is 'I don't like it but I'm supposed to but I don't wanna' resistance. Politicizing this into rebellious displays about your freedumbs shows a lot more about your immaturity and your callous lack of concern towards others. When you wear your mask the right way you are drastically reducing the airborne droplets coming from your nose and mouth which is the main spreader of the virus. It took Gov. Kemp of Georgia until June or July seemingly to realize that there are significant numbers of asymptomatic people running around. Not having symptoms they feel they are fine but they are carriers and potential spreaders of the disease. There are literally thousands of stories of people who have unwittingly shared their contagion with other more vulnerable people--quite often close loved ones and quite often with catastrophic result. No they didn't mean to......but falling back on willful ignorance is really not a good look after someone's been planted in a cemetery. The masks again are meant to keep these kinds of unintended consequences to a minimum.

I would also say if you come down with a cold you should probably get tested for Covid just to make sure and even if it doesn't seem that bad. Don't sit and wait on it either.

107Cubby.R.S.
Out 24, 2020, 9:00 am

>105 Limelite:

I think there's no way for us to wholly agree. Fear is the typical method that power seeking rulers use to gain control. You'll be fine when they stop scaring people. They use fear for everything and 'the virus has been a god send for the left' as the Progessive Jane Fonda said.

108Limelite
Out 24, 2020, 7:37 pm

Wrong. Fear mongering is the principal tool of the right.

Only people who won't get sick, or sicken others, are in the "land of the free" at "home of the brave" mask resisters? Tumpty-Dumbpty said so? If he says they're "silly" and denigrates mask wearers, then that's who to emulate? Yep to all, if you're an easily led idiot too afraid to "look silly."

You and your cohort are just a bunch of reincarnated seat belt resistors. Same arguments (freedumb!), same fear of looking like a sissy in front of their undereducated buddies, the ones who take false pride in driving without a license or auto insurance. Same snot-nosed defiance just because "I don't wanna." Well, the rest of us don't want to pay for your hospital bills, uninsured, pre-Obamacare masses. And defiance isn't resistance. So, buckle-up, buttercup!

Remember when "real" men spit on the sidewalk? When they blew their noses one nostril at a time into the air? When they coughed and sneezed without regard for people around them? When they refused to wash their hands after toileting (and still do)?

That's the kind of public health disregard that means freedom to you? Perhaps you long for the good old days of "rugged, independent, he-men"? Maybe you think you're better than they were/are? Does personal hygiene signal male weakness? Is that what you're afraid of -- looking conscientious of others?

That's why RWNJs resort to name calling mask wearers "snowflakes" and insisting that not wearing a mask means they themselves are fearless, while people who actually know and understand facts realize that wearing a mask and urging people to do so is not a "scare tactic" like you make it out to be.

We all know you're just waving the false flag of machismo. Sneer backatcha.

The idea that a mask on one's face is overcompensation for "no big deal disease" originates from people who ARE afraid of being made fun of by the toxic masculinity set, headed by the heroic, non-mask wearing,Covid-19 survivor, Donald J Trump. That's character cowardice.

There's NO valid reason NOT to wear a mask. Only a political chicken rationalization for the fragilely egoed. Wearing a mask is an IQ test in a pandemic, not a political test.

Proper mask wearing is no more than a sign of public health responsibility. (Oh yeah, "I'm not responsible" Trump is your behavioral guide!) Not wearing one is an egotistical "f^ck you" to everyone else whose rights begin where your nose ends, faux patriot.

How about you drop the rationalizing twaddle and real man up, pilgrim? Wade out from the shallow end of the gene pool where baby-men Trumpies play.

It's no skin off your a$$.

109CarlisleMLH
Out 24, 2020, 8:02 pm

This would make a great title for a mystery novel!

110lriley
Out 24, 2020, 8:07 pm

#108--'Wearing a mask is an IQ test in a pandemic, not a political test'.---I like that. Even if you're not sure--why take risks with your own health, let alone the health of others---the reasoning going on from some people is just fucking stupid.

Let's also talk about slowing the spread and again it's not going to be hard for most people to catch this but by slowing the spread--it becomes a lot easier to treat because you're not in your hospital with a hundred other people who need help--maybe you're in the hospital with 6 others. The slower the spread the more time bought for everybody--for doctors to find new treatments--for medical staff not to get burned out and for researchers to come up with a vaccine.

111Limelite
Editado: Out 24, 2020, 8:09 pm

Latest accelerated spread of coronavirus in multiple states linked to President Donald Trump’s recent campaign rallies, starting from mid-August through mid-October.
Trump continues to blatantly disregard how dangerous his campaign rallies are for his campaign staff, White House advisors and aides, and everyone who attends his political events.

Coronavirus cases surged in his wake in at least five places. COVID-19 cases grew at a faster rate than before after at least five of those rallies in the following counties: Blue Earth, Minnesota; Lackawanna, Pennsylvania; Marathon, Wisconsin; Dauphin, Pennsylvania; and Beltrami, Minnesota.

Public health officials additionally have linked 16 cases, including two hospitalizations, with the rally in Beltrami County, Minnesota, and one case with the rally in Marathon County, Wisconsin.

. . .earliest post-rally spikes occurred even as the nation’s overall case counts were in decline from a peak in mid-July.

. . .first in Minnesota, where Blue Earth County’s coronavirus growth rate was 15% before Trump’s rally, but grew to 25% afterward,/b>. Three days later, he was in Lackawanna County, Pennsylvania, where the coronavirus growth rate jumped from less than 3% before his visit to more than 7% afterward.

. . .spikes in at least four counties that hosted Trump rallies far surpassed their state’s overall growth rates.
Is it any wonder Trump is opposed to contact tracing? While tracing can't formally prove the rallies caused the spikes, it does demonstrate a statistical cluster of spikes where his rallies took place that exceed the control regions -- where he didn't rally -- increases.

112Limelite
Out 24, 2020, 9:33 pm

Rose Garden Massacre II?

Pence Advisor Catches Covid-19, Adds to WH Tally Another outbreak seems afoot among the Trump team.
It is unclear if Marty Obst developed coronavirus symptoms when he tested positive. Two sources confirmed he came up positive on Wednesday this week.

Obst isn’t a White House staffer, but he spends a lot of time with Pence and his staff visiting the White House as a political adviser.

Since Wednesday, Pence has appeared at multiple campaign events with large crowds of mostly unmasked attendees.
See related post above.

113margd
Out 24, 2020, 11:06 pm

>110 lriley: Some think that fewer are dying right now because by wearing masks, people are initially "seeded" by fewer viral particles, making for milder course of illness.

114Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 24, 2020, 11:14 pm

Limey, you're so lost in 108. You pretend that masks are going to stop a virus, they might help some, I wear one; but why do people think it's okay to take people's rights away?

Kamala's team has been spreading, suckbag Cuomo refuses to wear a mask... But at least their little twits will obey.

You're so rash and gross, I can't be bothered to listen to you pretend like you care. Good luck Limes, you're hopeless.

115Limelite
Out 24, 2020, 11:24 pm

Rose Garden Massacre Second Wave, Patient #2

Game on.

Here's your cognitive dissonance at work. While the CDC has specific guidelines for someone in close contact with a positive Covid-19 person, the WH has its own specific contradiction of those guidelines.

Pence's chief of staff, Marc Short, tests positive for COVID-19.
"While Vice President Pence is considered a close contact with Mr. Short, in consultation with the White House Medical Unit, the Vice President will maintain his schedule in accordance with the CDC guidelines for essential personnel," O'Malley said.

Short is the latest White House official to contract the virus, and he is the second person close to Pence whose case became public on Saturday. But Short is in regular contact with the vice president, increasing Pence's risk of exposure.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines urge individuals who are considered a close contact of someone with COVID-19 to stay home for 14 days from their last contact with that individual.

116Limelite
Out 24, 2020, 11:54 pm

>114 Cubby.R.S.:
Cubby goes out to grab a Pumpkin Spice Latte during Covid era. Sees sign in window of his favorite Starbucks joint.

BEFORE: No shirt no shoes no service.
AFTER: No shirt no shoes no mask no service.

Cubby, craving his sweet treat, ignores the sign and enters, naked but for his tidy whities and maskless. Thinks he's exercising some fictitious Constitutional "rights."

Guess what the judge thinks.

Here -- have some remedial reading. Addendum to Post #111 -- Details Possible Origin Rose Garden Massacre I with Trump airport rally in Duluth, MN, Sept. 30th. Ignored coronavirus guidelines at Duluth rally and e-mail warning of contract violation from airport management.

Cubby and Trump: "It's ALL about MEEEEEEE!!!"

Wear your damn mask. Properly.
Practice social distancing. Always.
Quit your whining. Buh-bye.

117John5918
Out 25, 2020, 7:28 am

When Libertarianism Goes Bad (NYT)

Liberty doesn’t mean freedom to infect other people...

118margd
Out 25, 2020, 12:52 pm

Astonishing that with FOUR aides and advisors testing positive, Pence is not quarantining himself--or at least making public contact tracing that makes him think he's not a risk to WH & campaign staff, not to mention wouldbe voters he plans to meet. I read elsewhere that Mark Meadows wanted to keep the VP outbreak secret: Rs, they don't give a damn about you...

Mike Pence will not quarantine after four aides test positive for coronavirus
Tucker Higgins | Oct 25 2020

Key Points
Vice President Mike Pence will not quarantine himself despite four of his aides testing positive for Covid-19, his office said.

Pence’s chief of staff Marc Short is isolating after testing positive on Saturday, Devin O’Malley, a spokesman for the vice president, said in a statement.

A senior political advisor to the vice president, Marty Obst, and two additional aides also tested positive, according to NBC News.

Pence is expected to hold a rally in Kinston, North Carolina later on Sunday. The battleground state is neck-and-neck with state polls on average showing Biden ahead by just over one percentage point.

...Devin O’Malley, a spokesman for the vice president, said in a statement...issued late on Saturday that Pence and second lady Karen Pence both tested negative and “remain in good health.”...

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/25/mike-pence-coronavirus-four-aides-test-positive-...

119margd
Editado: Out 25, 2020, 1:37 pm

Niels Lesniewski (Roll Call) @nielslesniewski · 3h:
According to the Johns Hopkins data, D.C. is at a 1.30% positivity rate for COVID-19,
and yet cases keep turning up connected to the White House.

Kathryn Watson (CBS) @kathrynw5 | 10:13 AM · Oct 25, 2020:
In other words, the prevalence of the virus is so low in D.C.
that you almost have to be reckless to have a good chance of contracting it.

_____________________________________

Mark Meadows: "We are not going to control the pandemic"
Axios | )ct 25, 2020

White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows defended Vice President Pence's decision to continue traveling and campaigning despite his exposure to staff who have tested positive for COVID-19, saying Sunday that Pence is exempt from CDC guidelines because he is "essential personnel."

Why it matters: CDC guidelines call for people who have been exposed to the virus to quarantine for 14 days. Meadows said on CNN's "State of the Union" that Pence will wear a mask when he travels and argued that "he's not just campaigning," pointing to the Israel-Sudan normalization agreement announced by the White House last week.

The big picture: Meadows told CNN that "we are not going to control the pandemic," dismissing the notion that the appropriate COVID policy should be to "quarantine all of America." Instead, Meadows argued, the focus should be on developing vaccines and therapeutics "to give Americans the relief that this is not a death sentence."...

https://www.axios.com/mark-meadows-pence-marc-short-covid-7befb81b-f76a-4991-8f2...

120Limelite
Out 25, 2020, 2:31 pm

Rose Garden Massacre II, Patients #3, #4, #5 in Pence Aides

At least five aides to Vice President Mike Pence have reportedly tested positive for COVID-19 in recent days.
Both the vice president and his wife, Karen Pence, tested negative for the coronavirus Saturday and again on Sunday, according to Pence’s office.

. . .“in consultation with the White House Medical Unit, the vice president will maintain his schedule in accordance with the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines for essential personnel,” said Pence’s office.
We all are fully aware of Dr. "Quack" Atlas' medical expertise in infectious diseases. Uh-huh. The justification for his "advice"? The WH designated Pence's campaigning for Trump's reelection "essential government business."

What a crock! Unless you believe parading around the geography super-spreading coronavirus is a legitimate example of Republican governance, of course. Trump and his supporters have convinced me. . .it sure is. That's why I voted a straight Democratic ticket EARLY.

That's also why Trump's closing campaign message to voters is he should continue in the Oval Office another four plague-ridden years. He and Pence are seeding America with these comforting words which are their entire Covid-19 management program, "Hi! We come in peace. We're from Washington and we're here to help you! Here's your October Surprise!!!"

121Earthling1
Out 25, 2020, 4:01 pm

This member has been suspended from the site.

122margd
Out 25, 2020, 4:08 pm

Eric Feigl-Ding @DrEricDing | 3:55 PM · Oct 25, 2020
NEW—Zach Bauer, Pence's "body man” who literally is w/ Pence at all times,
is one of the WH staffers who has tested #COVID19 positive.
Bauer's job is to accompany the VP throughout the day and night
helping him with a wide range of duties, putting him in close proximity to Pence.

123Limelite
Out 25, 2020, 8:30 pm

>121 Earthling1: Earth to 'Ling, Earth to 'Ling-'Ling!

I'll put my medical research background up against your swamp mind anytime. Speaking of "dumb," you should consider going dumb. It would benefit you more than posting does.

124Limelite
Editado: Out 25, 2020, 8:59 pm

Why the Rose Garden Massacre Will Go On 'til Hell Freezes Over

Why does such blindly stupid rationalization only come out of conservative nut jobs mouths? If you want to know what the definition of a "death cult" is, look no further than anti-masker Trumpty-Dumbpties. Beware! They want to kill you with their kourage. They think they're standing up for some mythical Constitutional rights. What they're fighting for down to their last breath (perhaps, literally) is their rites, as in their last rites.

The crime is they don't want to "go" alone. They want to take nurses, doctors, medical personnel of all kinds, first responders, family, and strangers in stores who may be medically compromised from preexisting conditions like obesity, heart disease, or chemotherapy.

Patriots aren't people who must be made to do the right thing for their country. Patriots are the people who guard against the chance of making others lay down their lives for them.

Trump voter tells CBS she doesn’t wear a mask because ‘teeny-tiny’ virus is ‘so small.’

BOLO -- Trump-Supporter Beth!


“Beth, you don’t wear a mask?” Brennan asked one of the voters.

“I do when I’m in public spaces where they insist that you do,” Beth replied. “But otherwise, no.

"And so when you hear the statistics that are rattled off by the CDC director, you hear Dr. Fauci say wearing a mask could really stop the spread, why do you doubt that?” Brennan pressed.

“Because the virus is a virus,” Beth stated. “The particle is so teeny-tiny that it can’t even be seen without a microscope. So while prophylactically and out in public it may help. Certainly if I was around someone who was older was ill, you know, I would do it.

“But the virus is a virus,” she added. “It’s so small. It’s going to do what viruses do. So I think that you best offense is a really good strong defense. Be healthy, you know, eat well, exercise well, sleep well.”
Clueless. She has no idea how/why masks work against contracting a viral load, worse, of distributing it. Yet, she knows viruses are going to "do what they're going to do." But she believes she's so smart that she can tell someone is "older and ill" just by looking at them. She chooses not to believe healthy 20, 30, 40, and 50 year-olds with no known p.e.c.s have and are dying of Covid-19. And that people can be compromised while appearing just fine to her.

Multiply the Beths by a few million who share her brilliant insight and one day America will wake up to find there are no more doctors, nurses, medical people. . .etc. to take care of them. Until then, enjoy plan your rites.

125margd
Out 26, 2020, 7:37 am

Questions About Trump’s Virus Response
Michael D. Shear, Annie Karni, Maggie Haberman and Sheryl Gay Stolberg | Oct. 25, 2020

...Mr. Meadows did not want the (VP outbreak) information becoming public on Saturday, the officials said. He pressed the White House medical office not to release a statement, and urged the vice president’s staff not to publicly reveal the diagnoses, the officials said. Several people said they believed Mr. Meadows was trying to keep the situation from becoming public so close to Election Day. Mr. Meadows has indicated to people that he was doing what the president wanted...

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/us/politics/pence-trump-coronavirus.html

_________________________________________________

Maybe Pence was given Regeneron to get through VP debate, and infected his own people:
Oct 7, 2020 -- Pence (with conjunctivitis) - Harris debate
Oct 21, 2020 -- Pence's chief of staff Marc Short tests positive, etc.

Maggie Haberman (NYT) @maggieNYT · 11h:
A Pence aide did not respond to a question about whether the VP has been treated with the Regeneron antibody cocktail as a preventative measure. https://nytimes.com/2020/10/25/us/politics/pence-trump-coronavirus.html
9:10 PM · Oct 25, 2020

Eric Topol @EricTopol | 9:10 PM · Oct 25, 2020:
Looks like Pence has been added to the Trump and Christie “compassionate use” category,
now apparently extended to politicians even for preventive use

If Pence did indeed get monoclonal Ab, it wouldn’t fulfill a high risk individual at age 61. Unaware of comorbidities. Unlike Christie who (got Lilly Ab) did. No published data in people for preventive use, only in non-human primates.

126HenryBlack
Out 26, 2020, 7:39 am

Este utilizador foi removido como sendo spam.

127margd
Out 26, 2020, 7:59 am

Doubling down:

NEW - White House is working on hosting an outdoor event for
a ceremonial swearing in of Amy Coney Barrett to the Supreme Court that could come late tomorrow night
after her expected confirmation tomorrow by the Senate, senior administration sources tell ABC News w/ @KFaulders

- John Santucci (ABC) @Santucci | 9:55 PM · Oct 25, 2020

128Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 9:20 am

>116 Limelite:

I do wear a mask. My Governor decrees like a good little bitch that I have to. So while all the Cuomos and Pelosis of the world preach fear and tell you we're horrible for thinking a decree is unconstitutional, while they are not wearing a mask themselves; know that I do to respect the businesses and people that want me to wear a mask and comply. Trump wears one too when required. In short, stay home, do not talk to anyone without a mask, because you don't know where they have come in contact or where you may have. If you are not always wearing a mask, you are endangering someone, somewhere, and you can shut the fuck up about it. He decrees for all you fear mongering, dictatorship loving pansies who don't like freedom. You can't make your own decisions about going somewhere or not? Eat the fear up, and tell me it's the Patriotic way to submit; that is such ignorant bullshit.

Italy's cases are on the rise, UK is spiking, Germany...spiking and all with happy mask mandates. All Trump's fault surely. Fucking moronic. Biden's fucking plan is what? Nothing different, except shut downs and authoritarianism -- mask mandate. Let people handle their own shit. The U.S. needs Governors to govern, because they understand their population, this is a big Country, that is very diverse. This whole fucking idea that Trump is to blame, is straight from fucking moron land.

129John5918
Out 26, 2020, 9:26 am

>128 Cubby.R.S.:

I am still struggling to understand what your problem is with masks. From your post it seems, (1) that you wear a mask, (2) that you understand that the reason to wear one is so as not to endanger other people, (3) that you are apparently not in favour of those who don't wear masks, and (4) that people need to make responsible decisions. You and I agree 100% up to there. But isn't one of the major roles of government to protect the citizenry? So if there are irresponsible people who make a decision not to wear a mask, shouldn't the government try to protect people by making a rule that masks must be worn, in the same way that it makes a rule such as cars must be driven on the right hand side of the road rather than the left, or that citizens accused of murder should be arrested? Freedom-loving right wingers can of course still choose not to wear a mask, but then they must expect to pay the penalty, just as they would if they breach other rules designed to protect the citizenry.

130Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 9:38 am

>129 John5918:

Many people have germs on their hands as they come into the store. They put on a mask. If they don't talk or cough, is the imminent danger masks or should they mandate hand sanitizer at the door as well?

131John5918
Out 26, 2020, 10:04 am

>130 Cubby.R.S.:

Why not? Where I live shops have either hand sanitiser or soap and water at the door. I have no idea whether or not it is mandated, but it makes sense so people make the decision to do it without complaining. It's a public health issue, not an issue of politics nor indeed of freedom.

132Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 10:14 am

>131 John5918:

There are a large number of people that are allergic to hand sanitizers, you would certainly provide those people with optional gloves?

With hand sanitizer, would should also note, that they may touch their face again, especially if they are messing with a mask in a store for long periods of time. They could carry the virus on a number of other items. Should bags be checked at the door?

This goes without saying, anyone that has received gloves at the door, should probably have someone else put the gloves on for them, because they would not have been trained to put gloves on.

Does this eliminate restroom usage. Should someone monitor the behavior of those exiting toilet rooms, to ensure they are resanitized?

Do you think restaurants should simply be closed? There is obviously a very high risk associated with not covering mouths, should all restaurants close up shop? They should look for other work, or should we pay their bills for them?

133John5918
Out 26, 2020, 10:39 am

>132 Cubby.R.S.:

Or people could provide their own gloves? I carry my own hand sanitiser in my pocket and in my car. But nobody is pretending that these measures provide 100% protection. However they do reduce the spread of the virus in the general population. That's what public disease control is all about. If nobody wears masks and cleans their hands, it will spread much quicker and put more vulnerable people at risk. That's why it's important to take all these precautions, and I'm honestly not sure why you feel the need to keep questioning them.

134Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 10:52 am

>133 John5918:

Wait, before the use of the mask as a political weapon; the most important things to do were washing your hands and covering coughs and sneezes with your elbow. You plan to undermine the scientific and provably effective methods? That is protocol for all sickness. Now, you delegitimize those methods? You want someone who could be infected to bring in gloves, as if they are not touching them with infected hands? If you are infected and touch your door handle after you put on your sanitizer or touch your face putting on a mask, you are compromising the measures you just took. It's a really good thing you're not controlling the government.

Please explain to me how you excuse murdering thousands of people John?

135lriley
Out 26, 2020, 11:05 am

There is a lot of extra frustration now because not only are cases spiking not only all over the United States but all over the world and some things that had been reopened are now being closed down again. A lot of people have had enough and don't have the mindset of being in for the long haul and they're setting themselves up or other people they might encounter or be close to if they do not get their minds back in the right place again. We're in a marathon---not in a one or 5 mile run.

The point right now is discipline. You don't have to be running down to your local. You don't have to go to the gym. You should not put yourself into vulnerable situations or at least when the disease is spreading like a wildfire. If you have sense you don't get shitface drunk and run stoplights especially not even looking. The guvmint kind of proscribes that kind of activity and almost no one has a problem with it. Most everyone thinks it's a good idea for the safety of everybody.

On April 12 there were 18,825 New Yorkers in the hospital with Covid. There had been projections suggesting it could go as high at 60,000. Most of those 18,825 New Yorkers were from downstate---from NYC or Long Island or Westchester and Rockland and very much it had spilled over into New Jersey too. 18,825 people in the hospital with a virus that almost no one was prepared for or knew shit about. There weren't enough hospital beds, nurses, doctors, PPE, ventilators and medical supplies to go around and not enough knowledge either. So we were to soon find out that it was more than just a respiratory disease but that it also would attack any organ---that it could cause blood clots---and all these things have to be learned as well as what doesn't work such as hydroxychloroquine. We might be heading back towards all this but this time maybe all over the country so it is important that we keep the numbers down---we do not want to overwhelm hospital systems because when that happens people die in the hundreds and thousands.

136John5918
Out 26, 2020, 11:11 am

>134 Cubby.R.S.:

I don't really know what you're talking about. Masks are not a political weapon. Other measures that you mention all contribute towards slowing the spread of the virus. There is no single magic bullet, and as I've already said, none of them provide 100% protection. So we all make the best decisions we can to protect ourselves and others. I'm still not sure what your problem is.

137Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 11:28 am

>135 lriley:

Immunologists do not recommend that we stay inside or avoid all contact, as it has damaging effects to us regarding other sicknesses. What do you suggest regarding measures taken that may compromise our ability to fight other infections and viruses? How do you propose feeding families that can no longer work, because companies that are considered unnecessary will be locked down?

138Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 11:49 am

>136 John5918:

I receive mailers from both parties, being an Independent. One, sends every other one of those mailers with candidates wearing masks. Why do you think that is? Have you ever heard of these psychological tools?

Forget that though:

You are openly willing to compromise hand washing and sanitization for the use of the mask, but not forcing the confirmed science. Example; I hear one or two people cough or sneeze, and very few aside of the cashier talk outside of those that they came with. If you cover the cough or sneeze with your elbow it sticks to your elbow, but if you cough or sneeze into a mask, it creates a reason to adjust the mask. This is risky considering 50% or better play with their masks, but you consider those without a mask more dangerous?

That's fine, let's pretend that you're right. you are suggesting someone bring their own gloves, whether they are infected or not. I would appreciate, that if you are going to dictate masks, that you dictate sanitization at the door with no exceptions. Please address >132 Cubby.R.S.: and >134 Cubby.R.S.: before another thousand die.

139John5918
Out 26, 2020, 12:12 pm

>138 Cubby.R.S.:

I'm not really interested in gloves. You're the one who raised that issue. In fact one supermarket chain here does supply gloves, but that's not the point. There is no 100% protection against spreading the virus, but all the imperfect measures which we take demonstrably slow the spread and provide protection to the population. I don't understand what your problem is.

If only one US political party wears masks then that might say something about the intelligence and the civic responsibility of its members, but the masks themselves are a public health measure, not a political issue. And while naturally you're interested in your own country, the coronavirus is a global phenomenon and masks are being worn throughout the world, regardless of political persuasion.

140Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 1:23 pm

>139 John5918:

If you're not interested in gloves and someone is allergic to hand sanitizer and the one confirmed and guaranteed way to help slow the spread is washing your hands, why are you not doing more to enforce this FACTUAL spreader? Are Progressives conflating their intelligence, by simply saying people who do not wear masks are dumb?

Please address, at the minimum the example set forth in >136 John5918:

Do not tell me, that people are simply too stupid to wear masks, that is not the response. 85% of people that get COVID have stated that they regularly wear masks.

141Limelite
Out 26, 2020, 1:29 pm

The point is and the argument boils down to engaging in scientifically demonstrated effective behavior is the best behavior.

1. Masks worn properly and constantly -- work
2. Hand cleaning long enough and frequently -- works
3. Distancing, quarantine, and in an outbreak, isolation -- works

Regardless of picayune attempts claiming "masks don't work," they do. People who insist otherwise refuse to recognize the FACT that mask ignorance and mask abuse are why they think masks don't work. It's not a black and white issue; it's an issue that depends on and varies with thousands of individual data points within the mass of data. And it's also an issue of "toxic masculinity," like sexual assault, domestic violence, seat belt wearing, smoking, and drinking.

Succinctly, conservatives don't do nuance.
Psychologists have found that conservatives are fundamentally more anxious than liberals, which may be why they typically desire stability, structure and clear (either/or) answers even to complicated questions.
Regarding the stubborn refusal to wear masks, research shows that's a "guy thing." It interferes with the "male mystique." Identical to the stubborn stupidity of seat belt refusniks. Mostly men, conservative men.

142Earthling1
Out 26, 2020, 1:43 pm

This member has been suspended from the site.

143Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 1:50 pm

>141 Limelite:

Progressives are too stupid to understand, if you're going to mandate the the third most effective measure, then you should mandate the second most effective measure -- perhaps even more so. But the number one most idiotic belief is; The whole thing is Trump's fault. You'd have to be border line psychopathic to think the President has any sway. Most Trumpers are Trumpers because of people like you, not because they think Trump is brilliant.

Bottom line; if you are afraid, stay home. What business do you have going in public places, period, if you are going to be angry for someone not wearing a mask?

The study you cite, is a ridiculous claim based on a result they wanted to present. Conservatives want less predetermined and Progressives want everything predetermined. That's obvious by the amount of restriction and law that Progressives wish to put in place, to grant so-called guaranteed rights.

144Limelite
Out 26, 2020, 1:51 pm

>142 Earthling1:

Admire your post, except the part where you abandon reason for political propaganda.

The virus is not Chinese, in spite of American Trump trying to "grant" it Chinese citizenship. How can he do that?

Viruses are citizens of the world. It may have "pangolinese" ancestors, though, through adoption. FYI, Pangolins are not Chinese, either.

145Limelite
Out 26, 2020, 2:00 pm

>143 Cubby.R.S.:

The only anger the gen pub sees in re masks is RWNJ anger -- Proud Bois, for merely one example of many RWNJ anti-maskers. The armed anti-maker occupiers of MI state capitol.

Tell me, why is it only anti-maskers who blow up in angry bat-shit crazy rants, making embarrassing fools of themselves when they are required -- nay, requested -- to mask up where mask wearing is sensible, i.e. Starbucks, the grocery store, Wal-Mart, etc., etc., etc?

Reading comprehension is not your forte. Facts are foreign to you. Reality is a personal threat in your world view. That's probably why you avoid reading anything factual when there's Rush, Hannity, Tucker, and QAnon, etc. to listen to instead.

While being conservative may be hard-wired in the brain, that's no excuse for stubborn stupidity and disregard of Truth.

Rise above your DNA.

146Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 2:22 pm

>145 Limelite:

No, the Progressive media points out these things to you and you do not see all of the facts. You aren't even reading what I'm writing, or responding to what I'm saying. You are so deranged and disgusting at times, I'm not even sure that you know what you're saying.

147jjwilson61
Out 26, 2020, 2:23 pm

>140 Cubby.R.S.: That stat doesn't prove anything. If 100% of people wore masks then 100% of people who get covid will have worn masks even if they were 99% effective.

148Limelite
Out 26, 2020, 2:26 pm

>146 Cubby.R.S.:

You're right, I don't closely read what you're saying anymore than I pay close attention to dogs barking at the moon.

Facts have a liberal bias -- you cry.
Americans have a liberal bias -- you rage.
Nature has a liberal bias (favoring the adaptable) -- you fail.

Rise above your DNA.

149Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 2:31 pm

>147 jjwilson61:

On the Mayo Clinic site:

Can face masks help slow the spread of the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) that causes COVID-19? Yes, face masks combined with other preventive measures, such as frequent hand-washing and social distancing, help slow the spread of the virus.

In combination, yet every single Progressive on this thread has dismissed the sanitizer requirement. The great symbol of masking shall be worshipped. John, quote "I don't care about gloves" for those allergic to sanitizing or Limey going on a mask worship rant complaining you're stupid if you don't wear one. Except, I wear the stupid things.

150jjwilson61
Out 26, 2020, 2:43 pm

>149 Cubby.R.S.: What I've been hearing lately is that the main transmission vector is through the air, so sanitizing everything in sight only adds a small amount of protection on top of wearing masks and distancing.

151John5918
Out 26, 2020, 3:06 pm

>149 Cubby.R.S.: John, quote "I don't care about gloves"

If you check back, you'll find that that's not actually a quote of what I said.

On hand sanitising, many establishments here where I live don't have hand sanitiser, they have plain old fashioned soap and water. It also works, and is suitable for those allergic to sanitiser. And I don't think anyone here has "dismissed" hand sanitising and social distancing, but rather recognised (a) that a combination of protective measures is needed and (b) that it still won't be 100% effective but will slow/reduce the spread of the virus. I don't understand why you are still refusing to accept this.

1522wonderY
Out 26, 2020, 3:20 pm

>151 John5918:. Because he requires something to have a hissy-fit about.

153Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 3:34 pm

>151 John5918:

Accept what? You think it should be mandated to wear masks, but that people who don't are stupid.

But I am asking you to address questions and comments that you refuse to.

Example; I hear one or two people cough or sneeze, and very few aside of the cashier talk outside of those that they came with. If you cover the cough or sneeze with your elbow it sticks to your elbow, but if you cough or sneeze into a mask, it creates a reason to adjust the mask. This is risky considering 50% or better play with their masks, but you consider those without a mask more dangerous?

Most can agree, that if you are asymptomatic, the greatest danger to those around you is the stuff you're spreading around with your hands. Because you are not sneezing or coughing, but you are also more likely to engage in the itching of your face... Could you speculate as to whether this indeed helps you stop the spread, if you are more likely to touch your face with a mask than without? What is the split?

154Cubby.R.S.
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 4:05 pm

>152 2wonderY:

I wear a mask when I have to. I am typically wearing a mask, or I am in an area far away from others on a playground or in the woods with my children. I'm just not afraid of the virus. I would rather risk catching the virus, than spend the rest of my life wearing a mask.

155jjwilson61
Out 26, 2020, 4:27 pm

>153 Cubby.R.S.: Coughing and sneezing isn't the issue, breathing, talking, and especially yelling and singing are what really spreads this virus. And the virus should be caught on the inside of the mask so for the purpose of not spreading it to others touching the outside shouldn't be a problem.

156Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 4:49 pm

>155 jjwilson61:

The overarching point is nobody knows what the impact is and it is being used as a political weapon. Most people are not chatting with folks they don't know in the store and nobody is singing or yelling there. I wear masks and think they are stupid and most people do not wear them appropriately and I see no reason to mandate them. I also do not think people are stupid for wearing them or not, because I take a risk every time I go somewhere and would rather be cautious than locked up. The facts are, you either think the mask should not be mandated or you think they should be eternally mandated. There will always be a risk to COVID. No matter the facts of wearing a mask, there is the single most important factor and that is washing your hands before and after touching your face or eating, etc, especially when in public. MORE IMPORTANTLY, it is in no way, one man's fault that people have died all over the globe from the virus.

Previously stated about people contending that: The whole thing is Trump's fault. You'd have to be border line psychopathic to think the President has any sway. Most Trumpers are Trumpers because of people like you (Progressive oppressors), not because they think Trump is brilliant.

157jjwilson61
Out 26, 2020, 6:37 pm

>156 Cubby.R.S.: We don't know what the situation will be in a year. It may be that a vaccine will make us all immune or maybe we'll have to get covid shots every year but it's not forgone that we will have to wear masks forever. But for for the rest of the winter it is prudent.

And, since you brought it up, of course Trump isn't responsible for the virus, but he is responsible for the US response to the virus which was poor.

158Cubby.R.S.
Out 26, 2020, 7:09 pm

>157 jjwilson61:
Fauci said Trump listened to him, a foremost expert. Although Fauci said more lives could have been saved by closing earlier, Biden and the Democrats were not for the shutdowns initially. Sorry, I'm not going to agree. Trump wasn't perfect on the subject, but to pretend Democrats would have done better is the sort of lying that creates irrational conversation.

159Limelite
Out 26, 2020, 10:52 pm

160jjwilson61
Out 26, 2020, 10:59 pm

>158 Cubby.R.S.: The Obama administration had left a detailed plan for dealing with a pandemic that was written with the failures of the Ebola and H1N1 responses in mind which Trump just ignored. He also did tremendous damage by lying about the severity of the virus when he knew that it was actually much worse, as he admitted to Woodward.

161John5918
Editado: Out 26, 2020, 11:52 pm

>156 Cubby.R.S.: The overarching point is nobody knows what the impact is and it is being used as a political weapon

You see, I can agree with you to some extent on that first point. Nobody knows for sure (although there are a lot of indications and scientific evidence which are worth taking note of, as >159 Limelite: hints), so why not be on the safe side and take sensible precautions? But the second point is pure fiction, a narrative created by people who for some reason don't seem to care about protecting themselves and, more importantly, others. How is following public health advice a "political weapon"? What is the aim of this weapon? How does it benefit a political party?

Is the mandatory wearing of seat belts in cars a political weapon? Of course there is plenty of evidence that it saves a lot of lives and serious injuries, and reduces the strain on health services, but it's not 100% effective, so why do it?

162John5918
Editado: Out 27, 2020, 2:05 am

>149 Cubby.R.S.:, >151 John5918:

Incidentally, I think this is a small example of one of the reasons why some of us ask Earthling to cite sources. Cubby has managed to misquote me, quite innocently and inadvertently I'm sure, in a post just a few posts down from the original, where it would have been so easy to copy and paste accurately. But since we know where the original is, we can easily check for accuracy and helpfully inform the poster about their error. Think how much more likelihood there is of someone innocently and inadvertently misquoting in a long long copy and paste from an external source. If the source is cited, we can read the original and there can be no confusion.

163Limelite
Out 31, 2020, 4:28 pm

Rose Garden Massacre: Part III -- Trump's Rallies

New Stanford study estimates that 18 Trump rallies have led to 30,000 COVID cases and 700 deaths.

America's Emperor Caligula feeds his ego on the human sacrifices to his Death Cult. Baby Don Nero, Jr. applauds and cheers Caligula on, "Deaths are almost nothing! ha, ha, ha!"
New Stanford study estimates that 18 Trump rallies have led to 30,000 COVID cases and 700 deaths.
(via @AaronBelkin) https://t.co/zcR4yKwnEl pic.twitter.com/1yaPivbYFS

— Carl Quintanilla (@carlquintanilla) October 31, 2020

164Limelite
Nov 1, 2020, 2:04 pm

Rose Garden Massacre IV Trump Election Night Party

Trump will hold his election night party inside the White House, with up to 400 invitees.
The party had been moved from the Trump Hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue, the original venue chosen by the campaign, in part because of rules in Washington prohibiting gatherings of more than 50 people indoors to try to limit the spread of the coronavirus.

The event is certain to raise questions about safety, given that the coronavirus spreads more easily in indoor spaces. An event on Sept. 26 for Justice Amy Coney Barrett’s nomination to the Supreme Court, at which people were bunched together both indoors and outside in the Rose Garden, was widely seen by health experts as a point of spread of the virus.
That, folks, is how Death Eaters have a good time -- up the potential for making more people ill and even killing them for the sake of self-aggrandizement.

If there's any justice, the event will be known as the "Wake of the Century" as "party-goers" will only be offering condolences to the Dead Man Running. If we're fortunate, America's Long National Nightmare will begin to be over. Put on your little black dress and black tie and tails; it's appropriate wardrobe for both late night galas and funeral parlor viewings.
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