State Capacity Libertarianism -- What is it?

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State Capacity Libertarianism -- What is it?

1Doug1943
Mar 30, 2020, 1:57pm

Read about it here: https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2020/01/what-libertarianism-ha...

It seems to me this approach is congruent to the Republican Workers Party project.

Comments?

2Carnophile
Abr 4, 2020, 11:20am

I stopped reading at "I favor much more immigration."

3Doug1943
Abr 7, 2020, 6:44am

Ah, read further. He's in favor of the Canadian approach.

Look here: https://cis.org/Kammer/FH-Buckley-Canada-More-Successful-Melting-Pot-US

C'mon guy!! We're going to go under unless we can cut further into their base! Let's leave them with only pro-North Korean Transgendered Entities of Color.

Or could it be ... that you worry about your job? Maybe having it given to some bright Taiwanese, who will work for 75% of your salary? I thought you guys had a union, United Tenure Workers or something like that? If you are concerned, consider it a sacrifice for the Nation -- we need those PHP programmers and SQL database specialists from Mumbai! And they assimilate like mad. (My brightest tutee right now is the son of Indian-born parents ... he's so rightwing, it scares me.)

4Carnophile
Abr 7, 2020, 10:56am

Or could it be ... that you worry about your job?

Personalizing it? Come on, Doug.

We're going to go under unless we can cut further into their base!

Letting in more immigrants is expanding their base!

Anyway, I don't know the situation in the UK, but here in the US we need to not only stop, but reverse immigration or the US is done.

The reality is this: Either my side is going to win the immigration war now raging in the western world, or the other side is. In neither case are libertarians, in any flavor, going to be in power.

5Doug1943
Abr 10, 2020, 4:10pm

We need to argue about this: it depends on WHAT immigrants, how many over what period of time, and how they are integrated, or not, into society.
I would love you to meet one of my very brightest tutees, a voracious book reader, parents from India (nominal Hindus) ... he's way further to the Right
than I am.... and I don't think he's all that atypical. Look at the Conservative cabinet some time.... full of non-whites, but ambitious people who have
succeeded in a free society.

We have to go for Civic Nationalism. Otherwise we face a real catastrophe, if the Left succeed in opening up the racial fracture line.
Patriotism is the only real anti-racism in America.

We need to talk!!!!! Have you read Buckley's book yet?? Please do!!!

6Carnophile
Abr 11, 2020, 3:19pm

It depends on WHAT immigrants, how many over what period of time, and how they are integrated, or not, into society.

In principle this is correct. As a practical matter, the “camel’s nose under the tent flap” effect means it’s all or nothing.

Why are you focusing on the exception?

We can survive without smart right-wing dot-Indian immigrants. Even if I were to grant the outrageous assumption that they are politically reliable, and their children will be politically reliable - which is obviously ridiculous - we simply don’t need them.

We do need to shut down and reverse immigration now. We won’t survive if immigration isn’t reversed, and soon.

7Carnophile
Editado: Abr 11, 2020, 3:20pm

If you really believe that we can't survive without more immigrants, then you have become so disassociated from reality that no further communication is possible.

8Doug1943
Abr 12, 2020, 9:52pm

Yikes! I almost think your Username has been seized by a malicious leftwing person. Assuming this is really the 'old Carnophile', i never realized this was something about which you felt so strongly.

Let me ask you this: forget about Indian start-up CEO's, etc ... what do you think about the 13% of the American population that is African-derived? Do we need to separate?

I'm not asking if, in an alternative history, life would have been better for one or both groups, had they never come together on the North American continent. The fact is they did, and we have to live together, unless the Left succeeds in provoking a race war.

And we have. Maybe the Left will be able to undo that, with its current insane push for 'identity politics', which they believe will be confined to non-whites, while whites dutifully recite the anti-racist mantras they have been taught for the last fifty years, and even take more burdens, like 'white privilege'. Ha... if they think that, do they have a surprise coming.

As for whether the US needs more clever people from the Third World ... no, I can theoretically conceive of an America that adopts the Japanese or Communist Chinese attitude towards immigration. It wouldn't get the benefits they get from it -- they are ethnically homogeneous, for all practical purposes, and want to stay that way. We are not. Our big racial fault-lines are already in place.

In any case, I think the logic of capitalism and a free society -- of science and capitalism and the economic and technical growth that capitalism brings -- pushes the whole human race towards a slow
homogenization of cultures, as the backward peoples level up. This is a matter for many generations, though, and must occur slowly and voluntarily and naturally. And no one can predict its exact modalities.

For the moment, if we are to stop the destruction of America, we need the 'Republican Workers Party', which will necessarily contain a number of tendencies on a number of questions, one of which will be on immigration. I hope you join in this project.

9Carnophile
Abr 12, 2020, 10:49pm

Assuming this is really the 'old Carnophile', i never realized this was something about which you felt so strongly.

I am proud to say that even when I was 19 and reading Reason in the college library, I never swallowed the fuck-witted party line on immigration.

And, now that the situation has become desperate, I no longer identify as a libertarian.

As for whether the US needs more clever people from the Third World ... I can theoretically conceive of an America that adopts the Japanese or Communist Chinese attitude towards immigration. It wouldn't get the benefits they get from it -- they are ethnically homogeneous... We are not. Our big racial fault-lines are already in place.

So we should import more fault lines?

Doug, you're still in the mode of thinking, "Whenever the Left accuses us of 'racism' we have to prove it's not true."

No. The Left knows their accusations of "racism" etc. are false. Everyone else also knows it. You beat the enemy by beating them, not by accepting their frame and trying to appease them.

10Doug1943
Abr 14, 2020, 10:49am

I absolutely agree with the last few sentences.

But consider this: just because the horrible, lying, dishonest hypocrites of the Left ... who join the 'white flight' even more effectively than their less well-off white conservative counterparts when a neighborhood starts to 'diversify', and who right now in New York are moving heaven and earth to make sure than no IQ 85 knife-carriers get diversified into their elite public schools -- just because these people say things like 'racism is bad', is no reason for us to appear to say, "No, it's not."

The reality, as you well know, is that most conservatives would sell their grandmother to a Saudi sex-slave merchant in order to have a Black Donald Trump to run against the Democrats, hopefully without Trump's ignorance and narcissism and impulsiveness. It's only skin deep, the product of fifty years of indoctrination/education, but it's very real.

I don't think we should simply be silent in the face of their lies.

Especially, when the 'the Black Question' is veryimportant in America. I don't know if it can be 'solved', but it can be ameliorated, via decent schools -- thus the importance both of school choice, and of propagandizing for effective teaching methods and school ethos: Direct Instruction, and the way Michaela School in the UK is run. Plus very strict policing, and whatever measures the state can take -- if any -- to shore up genuine two-parent families.

We can't be Hungary. We need to have a sensible approach to immigration: we WANT -- or should want -- all those Jews, who gave us the atom bomb and polio vaccine ; and clever Indian entrepreneurs and PHP programmers; and the same for the sames sort of person from China. And the same for my PhD student from St Lucia, who not only got a PhD in Computer Science but then went on to get a Law Degree. Or my tutee whose mother is from Kenya, who started this company: Netduma.com ...the latter two live in the UK and the country is richer for their presence.

We need to take the no-nonsense Singapore approach. I would change our immigration laws to make sure there are no ghettoes, that anyone who applies for citizenship gets it only provisionally for twenty years -- no voting, and deportation on the fast route if they get in trouble with the law or show signs of not assimilating to our wonderful religious tolerance.

By the way, I just laugh when the lying hypocrites of the Left accuse me of racism, given my own personal history. I knew these peoples' ancestors fifty-five years ago, at college: in the winter of 1964, we had several large meetings on my campus, about Fayette County in Tennessee, Tent City, etc. Hundreds of students -- nearly a thousand, as I recall -- attended, all very indignant at the oppression of Black people in Fayette County. Then it came time, at the end of school year, to actually 'Go South' and start trying to register people to vote. The thousand indignant, virtuous liberals became ... 50. Maybe the disappearance of Cheney, Goodwin, and Schwerner in Mississippi had something to do with it -- Fayette County was right on the Mississippi state line, and its whites shared the social attitudes of their brothers to the South. Or maybe Mommy and Daddy decided to fund a summer break in Hawaii. In any case, many were called but few were chosen.

So I just dismiss these phoney virtue-signallers with a wave of the hand. I've seen their kind all my life. They have absolutely no interest in a real study of the realities of Black society, of Third World countries, etc. They just see them as props for their act.

American society has big problems, its Black component has them five times worse. I don't know if these problems can be 'solved', but they are generally made worse by the programs of the Left.

What we need are policies that strengthen the traditional family, reward entrepreneurship, crack down hard on crime, and above all, destroy the horrible inner-city schools and replace them with an educational system that works -- and school choice, realistically, will be the only way to do it. Similarly, the continual importing of low-skilled labor from Latin America is a policy that could have been designed to destroy job prospects for young Blacks.

Okay, enough. It's a real shame that almost no conservatives look at this thread any more, still less take part. Now more than ever we need to discuss how to save our country.

11Carnophile
Editado: Abr 16, 2020, 1:20pm

I absolutely agree with the last few sentences.
But consider this: ... just because these people say things like 'racism is bad', is no reason for us to appear to say, "No, it's not."


We’re not saying that. Fortunately, the left’s accusations of “racism” now just induce eye rolls.

(...hopefully without Trump’s ignorance and narcissism and impulsiveness.
This is a side issue, but: You’ve swallowed the enemy propaganda. The left always says every Republican President is ignorant, etc.)

we WANT -- or should want -- all those Jews, who gave us the atom bomb and polio vaccine ; and clever Indian entrepreneurs and PHP programmers

Impossible.
(1) We cannot get immigration policy that identifies and admits only desirable immigrants. That’s what people on the leading edge of the right now call a “coup-complete problem”: We won’t get it short of winning a literal civil war.
(2) We cannot reliably identify the Einsteins ex ante anyway.

Regarding your hyperconservative Indian programmer: I wish I could remember where, but in the last six months I saw a poll of black Americans who self-identify as “conservative.” There was a long list of preferences to make conservative Republicans drool: pro-life, pro-Christianity, anti-welfare, etc.

Then they asked them how they vote, and an enormous majority said:

Democrat.

This is the reality of the situation.

12Carnophile
Abr 16, 2020, 1:18pm

I would change our immigration laws to make sure there are no ghettoes, that anyone who applies for citizenship gets it only provisionally for twenty years -- no voting, and deportation on the fast route if they get in trouble with the law or show signs of not assimilating to our wonderful religious tolerance.

Oh, Doug, Doug, Doug. I would establish space colonies in other star systems by inventing a faster-then-light stardrive, and I’d solve the colonies’ energy problem with a perpetual motion machine.

13Carnophile
Editado: Abr 16, 2020, 1:21pm

BTW, above I said that immigration policy that admits only desirable immigrants is something we won’t get short of winning a civil war.

That’s also true of what we actually need, which is a cessation and reversal of immigration. What I am doing in advocating that is intellectual battlespace preparation for the other side of a civil war. I’m not under any illusions that we’re going to get it in the politics-as-normal regime.

Luckily for us - uh, for certain values of “luckily” - the left, who has won almost every important battle in the last half-century and should be satisfied, is pushing hardcore insanity, almost as if they’re TRYING to provoke a civil war that will destroy their regime.