Group Read, February 2020: The Water Margin

Our February group read is The Water Margin by Shi Nai’An. Please join in the read and post any comments you have on this thread.

Yikes! The shortest month of the year to read a 2100+ page book! I am not sure I can do it.
And, I do not own a copy. It looks like there are lots of different versions, of varying lengths. Some are just the first volume and some are abridgments. It is confusing.

I love the idea of reading the longest book in the shortest month! Although at least it's leap year. It gives me a reason to feel OK about not reading the whole thing. I think it's a multi-part book comprised of many small tales, so this should be easy. I hope! My only qualm is that it's not the easiest book to read in bed at night - looks very large and heavy!

There is an extra day this year if that helps! :)

>2 BentleyMay: I was confused by the same. If anyone can point me in the direction of the best or 'right' version to read, it would be greatly appreciated.

This is the copy I was looking at, but it is only 848 pages.

https://www.bookdepository.com/Water-Margin-Shih-Naian/9780804840958

Oh, I forgot this is a leap year. With that extra day this is totally doable!

I think there is no "definitive" version, and the authorship has never been resolved. It is generally thought that Shi Nai'An wrote the first 70 chapters and then various authors added to it, but other parts have evolved over time. I read a 100 chapter kindle version last year but other acceptable versions have 70, 115, 120 and 164 chapters! The first 70 chapters I think are common to all and take you to the same point in the story, which can be seen as a conclusion. The additional chapters are in the nature of "the further adventures of..."

Note that Outlaws of the Marsh is an alternate title of the same book.

I thought this was the most entertaining of the "four great Chinese novels" so hopefully you enjoy whichever one you end up with!

I posted this with my review when I read it back in 2016:

Notes on various editions and translations (cribbed from the introduction of the Jackson-Lowe translation):
The first known version, circa 1370 is often attributed to Shi Naian (although some scholars believe it was authored by the same person as The Romance of Three Kingdoms. But the text went through various editors and commentators until a 120 chapter version -- covering the adventures of the various characters as they became bandits, rebelling against corrupt officials, and eventually offered amnesty and pardoned and accepted into Imperial service -- was published in 1592. Then in 1641, the book underwent another major revision -- the last 50 chapters -- detailing the amnesty and pardon -- were cut and the story was reshaped to create a more unified (70-chapter) whole.

Modern Translations:
1) J. H. Jackson - originally published in 1937 and "rejuvenated" by Edwin H. Lowe in 2009. This is the 70-chapter version. Jackson's translation sanitized the Chinese text, Lowe reinserted the explicit descriptions of brutality and barbarity, and the profanity of the lower class characters included in the work.

2) Sidney Shapiro - published in 1981. This is a 100 chapter version. It is considered an excellent translation although it does not not fully capture the more colorful language.

3) John and Alex Dent-Young - published in several volumes from 1994 to 2002. This is the 120 chapter version. Also considered an excellent translation, and one that includes the more profane language, it does occasionally use British slang in the translation - characters calling each other "mate", for example.

Thank you puckers and Eliz_M. That is very useful info.

>7 puckers: >8 ELiz_M: Thank you!

As the person who nominated this book in the first place I thought it was time I finally posted to this thread. I started the book in January but thought it would be great to have others join me in the read. I've been having such a fun time reading the book that I thought I'd share that fun.

I'm reading the book in French (about done with volume 1 out of 2) which has the title Au bord de l'eau. It is the edition with 92 chapters translated, presented, and annotated by Jacques Dars. I skipped the introduction that most likely talks about the choice of the 92 chapter version as I didn't want to fall upon spoilers which tend to happen in introductions to classic works, I find. I'll have to read that later upon completion of the book.

However, my edition includes a lot of endnotes (that are fascinating to read) and will often mention which chapters were omitted from other editions. I've come to find that those chapters tend to be the more violent and bloody chapters.

In the Ancient China group the member jcbrunner read through the book and posted a summary of each chapter with the thread ending at chapter 83.
http://www.librarything.com/topic/186406

The thread isn't necessary to read as the book isn't that complex but some people might enjoy it. There are a lot of characters but when it's been a long time since they were first introduced the author always has the character describe what happened to them to the new character being introduced so it's always a good way to remember what you read previously.

Anyway, I'm glad you guys are joining me in this read!

I was very excited to see that The Water Margin has been chosen as February's Group Read - only now I am not sure if I will be able to work it into the mix. I will probably not finish this one in February, but will plan on least starting it!

I have finished the first volume meaning I've finished chapters 1-46. I've headed straight into volume 2 and I'm hoping my weekend skiing will allow me a lot of reading time with the traveling on the train and then nights in the hotel without much to do post-skiing.

Coincidentally also started reading Water Margin this month - been doing chapter summaries here (there's some inaccuracies).

https://www.librarything.com/topic/316342

Reading the Sidney Shapiro version in 3 volumes, which is 100 chapters in 1600 small pages with wide spacing.

Writing chapter summaries helps a lot with keeping the characters straight - recommend it.

>14 Settings: These chapter summaries are fantastic! It's a bit confusing that the characters have different names in your translation but still super helpful in keeping track of their reappearances.

I am enjoying this read a whole lot. It would be better if the book were not so massively huge in my edition (the Pearl Buck translation), making it exceedingly difficult to read in bed. But I really appreciate the way the stories just sort of burble along without the structured plotting of the modern western novel. The flavor of the language, the humor, the social customs etc. are also delightful.

Although I know I will not finish it this month, I will provisionally cross it off my list and will return to it after I retire and have more time for long reads. I may, at that point, need an edition that is less difficult to hold, although I am reminded of Rembrandt's painting of an old woman reading the Bible and think, "That could be me, with All Men Are Brothers!

Haven't read this for a few days - ouch - and unlikely to read it over the weekend because I'll be traveling. Now would be a good time to get a chapter or two in instead of falling into a reading slump.

30 chapters left at ~500 pages and the novel's still almost as enjoyable as the first few chapters.

>16 Settings:

Same with me. I should be finished by now but had a skiing trip last weekend so didn’t read and while usually I read at work during lunch, instead I’ve been falling asleep due to my reading spot being a nice big window with warm sun filtering me. It puts me right to sleep like a dog or cat! So I have also only had 500 pages left for a while now even though I’m incredibly immersed in the book!

Just realized that the touchstone for my version of the book, although leading to the right book and ISBN, has the wrong chapters listed. Turns out there are only 71 chapters in my book, and not 92 like the touchstone said. I'm on chapter 49 myself and am still just as engrossed. Have also just finally met some strong female characters as all the female characters up to now have been weak, horrible, scheming women.

I have started the book and have completed 2 chapters. I am amazed at how easy these stories are to read. I can see that it will probably take me a few months to work through the book, but I am looking forward to it.

I cannot borrow it anywhere so I have to convince myself that I should break my no new books resolution this early in the year! Let's face it, I want to!

>20 JayneCM:

Considering it's a 14th century novel technically you'd be buying a very old book.

>21 lilisin: What a great way to look at it! :)

I have a 100 chapter version and it's my opinion that the chapter quality past chapter 70 is taking a nosedive. Going to keep reading because it's still decent, but I suspect I've passed the best bits.

Change my mind, the chapters in the 80's are better. Might just have been a bad section.

I should have been finished with Au Bord de L'eau by now. I love this book when I'm reading it but I think I have now spent too much time reading it and thus it's getting harder and harder to pick it up. I only have 250 pages left now (out of 2000) and I really need to just push through the end because there is no reason to put down a book you are loving.

I finished the book on the 29th and am so happy with the reading experience. What a fun read.
While the second part slogs down a bit as the pacing of all the encounters increases to a bit of a silly degree, I would have definitely read till chapter 100 if my version had one past chapter 70. Although at the same time I am also quite happy to finally be done with the book! But what a fun time.

Whew! I finally finished my read of The Water Margin, it only took me 3 1/2 months. I really liked this story, and how easy it was to read. Way back in the 1990s I played a series of RPGs entitled Suikoden which was based on this book. Playing those games actually gave me a pretty good grasp of what the situation was and why things happened as they did.

>27 DeltaQueen50:

Congratulations on finishing!