Chamber of Secrets Chapters 13-18 Discussion

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Chamber of Secrets Chapters 13-18 Discussion

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1foggidawn
Editado: Out 22, 2007, 12:05pm

On last week's thread, we discussed what to do with the last six chapters of this book. The two options were either to split them 3/3, or to go ahead with all 6. We decided on a compromise, and this is it!

So, this will be our discussion thread for the next two weeks. If you only had time to read three chapters, please jump in and discuss what you read! If you've already hit all six, likewise! If you're reading the book for the first time, you may want to wait until you've finished it before coming back to this thread and discussing -- it'll be here!

The chapters are:

  • 13 - The Very Secret Diary
  • 14 - Cornelius Fudge
  • 15 - Aragog

  • 16 - The Chamber of Secrets
  • 17 - The Heir of Slytherin
  • 18 - Dobby's Reward

  • All right -- bring on the discussion!

    And, for those of you looking to the future, we'll begin our discussion of the first four chapters of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban on November 5.

    2littlegeek
    Out 22, 2007, 12:40pm

    OK, then, why doesn't Hogwarts have any mandrake potion in stock? You'd think they would keep some on hand, since it has such important healing properties. Barring that, why don't they just buy, beg or borrow some from somewhere?! There are petrified children in the hospital wing, who can tell them who the monster is!!! I mean, jeeze!

    For that, Dumbledore really should have been suspended!

    There are lots of plot holes in these books if you are paying attention. Yet, I still love them. I think it's the characters. JKR really has a way with them.

    3foggidawn
    Editado: Out 22, 2007, 1:29pm

    I agree, LG. This read-through, I've noted several things I never wondered about before. For example, I'm surprised Hermione didn't know who Riddle was. I guess that information was suppressed, and that people feared to write more about him than they absolutely had to, but still.

    Also, Dumbledore was at the school when the Chamber was first opened, yes? Did they never figure out what kind of monster perpetrated the attacks that time? And could they not guess? I mean, how many monsters are there that Petrify or kill their victims without leaving a mark?

    I've also been wondering about the last time the chamber was opened. I guess I always assumed that the matter was resolved, but now I'm realizing that it apparently wasn't -- the Heir just stopped ordering attacks. I'm wondering if this is because, as a weapon, Slytherin's monster isn't really all that great. I mean, look at this story -- all those petrifications, and not one death!

    These three chapters do have a line that makes me laugh every time: "That'd be a cheerful visit," said Ron. " 'Hello, Hagrid. Tell us, have you been setting anything mad and hairy loose in the castle lately?' "

    I'm with the "busy" group that only read the first three chapters this week, and will catch up with the end of the book by next week.

    (edited for typos)

    4pollysmith
    Out 22, 2007, 6:19pm

    maybe the attacks stopped fifty years ago because Riddle decided to bide his time or possibly because DD confronted him and told him too stop?

    5gpwts
    Out 23, 2007, 8:48am

    No remember, *uses supersonic memory* the attacks stopped because Dippit was going to close down the school, and the one place Riddle had a soft spot for is the school. HE wanted to teach, and live there, and even in book 7 (Spoiler for a line) He never directly attacked the school. What I mean is he never just blew it up

    LGm the mandrake potion is a good question. Though maybe they used up their stock form last year and they were just in the inbetween time of making more. As for begging for some, mandrakes sounded like a plant that was a bit rare. Just guessing on that but...

    6pollysmith
    Out 23, 2007, 9:26am

    AH! yes I remember G thanks for that!

    as for mandrake potions maybe they just didn't see a need to keep it on hand? i mean how often does a basilisk come along?

    7littlegeek
    Out 23, 2007, 12:27pm

    Seems like it had other important healing uses.

    Let's talk about all the things in CoS that relate directly to DH. Remember how we were all trying to figure out ahead of time what the clues were?

    The first one that comes to my mind is pulling the sword of Gryffindor out of the hat.

    8littlegeek
    Out 23, 2007, 3:22pm

    I'm the only one who seems to care about this re-read. Well, anyway, here are more of my thoughts about the end of Cos, if anyone cares. ;-)

    1. I love when Harry & Ron are speculating about why Riddle got the prize for meritorious service (or whatever) and Ron says "maybe he murdered Myrtle."

    2. How the hell do they know it was Ginny who was taken to the Chamber of Secrets? This one has always bugged me.

    3. Horcrux Tom Riddle is like an internet predator with Ginny. (yuck)

    4. The battle with the basilisk is one paragraph in the book. Movie one went on for what seemed like hours....

    9gpwts
    Out 23, 2007, 7:04pm

    1. Irony!
    2. LG, they told everyone to go to the common room, they would have taken roll also her brothers would
    3. Never thought of that ewww
    4. It's really only a paragraph?

    10littlegeek
    Out 23, 2007, 7:11pm

    g (thanks for engaging with me, btw) as to #2, I thought MacGonagall asks Ron & Harry to come with her directly from the Quidditch pitch. I could be wrong, but that's what I'm remembering. I'll have to check it out when I get home from work.

    11gpwts
    Out 23, 2007, 7:14pm

    i love engaging people, and I'm not sure either. This is just logical I used, and maybe Percy the busy body realized she was missing

    12compskibook
    Out 23, 2007, 8:05pm

    Does it bug anyone about the Mandrakes? They were babies, then they acted like teenagers, then they become adults and get chopped up!

    13gpwts
    Out 23, 2007, 8:33pm

    *shrug* such is life

    14foggidawn
    Out 23, 2007, 9:22pm

    #12 -- yeah, that did give me a bit of a pause this time through: "And when they start acting fully mature, we can cut them up and stew them!" ;-)

    15gpwts
    Out 23, 2007, 9:40pm

    all the more reason not to grow up

    16foggidawn
    Out 23, 2007, 9:59pm

    *evil chuckle* wait until you see what we've got in store for you, dearie!

    *sits up straight, blinks, looks around* Um, did I just say something? That was weird . . .

    ;-)

    17pollysmith
    Out 25, 2007, 1:15pm

    yeah i felt weird about the mandrakes too, but I wonder what a mature mandrake does? it isn't much different then cutting up any other plant. How do we know that carrots and potatoes don't ....oh well don't go there or I'll not eat anything!

    18foggidawn
    Out 29, 2007, 9:08am

    Is everyone caught up? Have we all finished the book?

    Actually, I can answer that question: no, we have not. (Because I, for one, am not! But I'm going to go fix that now!)

    Come on, discuss, discuss!

    19pollysmith
    Out 29, 2007, 11:38am

    okay, aragog. A normal spider enlarged by magic? Or a true monster, unknown to muggles? Why was aragog not concerned about Hagrid having been sent to Azkaban? he felt some sort of gratitude didn't he?

    20megkrahl
    Out 29, 2007, 12:48pm

    I don't think it was gratitude so much as being indebted to Hagrid. Hagrid saved Aragog's life therefor he was indebted to Hagrid. Which in Aragog's mind meant that he repaid Hagrid by letting him live.

    21pollysmith
    Out 29, 2007, 12:51pm

    okay now post a discussion topic

    22megkrahl
    Out 29, 2007, 1:02pm

    oh, ummm, ok let me think a minute. Oh! If Phoenix tears are so healing, why doesn't the nurse keep a supply handy? I mean, wouldn't it have been less painful healing Harry's boneless arm that way?

    23foggidawn
    Out 29, 2007, 1:04pm

    Maybe it only works if they're fresh? Or, more likely, Fawkes can't cry on demand?

    24pollysmith
    Out 29, 2007, 1:06pm

    I think it has to be a voluntary thing for the phoenix, he has to want to use his tears for you.

    I wonder why DD didn't have Fawkes heal his hand?

    25littlegeek
    Out 29, 2007, 1:08pm

    #24 Good question, polly! (Even if it has nothing to do with CoS.)

    26pollysmith
    Out 29, 2007, 1:11pm

    okay sorry offtopic! its hard for me to keep them all separate!

    27megkrahl
    Out 29, 2007, 1:12pm

    But definately has possibilities for discussion when we get to HBP.

    28pollysmith
    Out 29, 2007, 1:22pm

    How about that cornelius fudge? Do you think he was just trying to do things "by the book" or was he trying to keep himself popular?

    29littlegeek
    Out 29, 2007, 1:29pm

    He's an opportunist, definitely. The man is made of jello.

    30gpwts
    Out 30, 2007, 4:38pm

    the man is made of half done jello (meaning kinda liquidy)

    and fyi (digging in my Hermione like sieve of knowledge) Aragog is an acromantical (sp?) meaning giant spider

    I just wanna know how Hagrid at age 13 got an egg?

    31foggidawn
    Out 30, 2007, 4:42pm

    Where there's a will, there's a way!

    And yes, Aragog mentions that he's an Acromantula, bred in some distant country. Wonder if Hagrid was using secret passages while he was a student to slip off to the Hog's Head to meet strangers who might be carrying contraband creatures? ;-)

    32jjwilson61
    Out 30, 2007, 4:52pm

    Was it made clear in Chamber of Secrets that Hagrid had been cleared of the charges that got him expelled? It's not until the next book that we find out that he has been made a teacher.

    Come to think of it, what was the charge? That the spider had been killing people? But then how did they explain that they had been petrified? Did they think that Hagrid was the Heir of Slytherin? If so, then why didn't he get worst punishment then being expelled?

    33pollysmith
    Out 30, 2007, 7:14pm

    yes hagrid was cleared of the charges
    and yes he was suspected of being the heir or at least that was the story Tom Riddle made everyone think I think that since no direct blood bond could be found with Slytherin Hagrid was simply expelled for breaking school rules.

    In CoS ol Fudge sends him to Azkaban to convince everyone that he had found the culprit.

    34littlegeek
    Out 31, 2007, 12:28pm

    You can be sent to Azkaban just for breaking school rules? That's pretty harsh. You have to commit an actual crime, even in California, and they don't send you to San Quentin. If you're a minor it's Juvy for you.

    Does Azkaban have a Juvy division?

    35foggidawn
    Out 31, 2007, 12:49pm

    #34 -- Sorry, what? Who got sent to Azkaban for breaking school rules?

    *is wondering if a big chunk of pages fell out of her book when she wasn't looking*

    The only one that I remember getting sent to Azkaban in CoS is Hagrid, as an adult, allegedly for setting a vicious monster (the basilisk) loose among the students -- he was suspected of this because he was expelled for allegedly doing the same during his school days, but that time he was only expelled. Poor Hagrid, who took the rap twice for that darned basilisk! Although raising an acromantula in a school closet mught be worthy of expulsion, anyway. . . .

    I bet Azkaban's too hard-core to have Juvie, but who knows what they do with wizarding delinquents?

    36pollysmith
    Out 31, 2007, 2:00pm

    Yes, thank you FD, I might not have been clear in my above post

    37littlegeek
    Out 31, 2007, 2:05pm

    I think I misread it, sorry pols. I'm having lots of asthma for the past week, it makes me kinda stupid. Your brain needs oxygen.

    38littlegeek
    Nov 2, 2007, 2:29pm

    OK, so we're starting PoA this weekend, right?

    There's 22 chapters. How do we want to split it up? It's kinda tricky because some of those later chapters split right in the middle of pivotal scenes. (check it out, you'll see what I mean.)

    39foggidawn
    Nov 2, 2007, 6:47pm

    Yes! PoA discussion starts Monday! (I'm so excited!)

    As for how to break it up, it's kind of tricky because the book is so tightly plotted that most of the chapters end on a slight cliffhanger.

    One option would be to take it in three sets of four and two sets of five, like so:
    1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-17, 18-22.

    Another option would be to take it in four sets of four and two sets of three, like this:
    1-4, 5-8, 9-12, 13-16, 17-19, 20-22.

    I favor the second option, myself -- I think the chapter breaks fall a little more gracefully that way. What does everyone else think, though?

    40littlegeek
    Nov 2, 2007, 9:10pm

    Actually, looking through what happens in the later chapters, I think we should do 4 chapters at a time, then the last 2. The last 2 chapters are pretty long, actually longer than chapters 17-20. And 17-20 are kind of a continuous scene.

    Whaddaya tink? (where is everyone today?)

    41foggidawn
    Nov 2, 2007, 9:33pm

    I'd be up for that.

    (LG, I'm beginning to suspect that you and I are the only ones interested! I started a new post, and went ahead and added a mention of the series discussion in the group profile, trying to drum up some interest. Come on, people! Talk to us!)

    42littlegeek
    Nov 3, 2007, 7:06pm

    yeah, really. I mean it's PoA, everyone's favourite!

    43pollysmith
    Nov 3, 2007, 7:28pm

    hey whatever, its all fine with me!

    44littlegeek
    Nov 4, 2007, 6:04pm

    yeah, it doesn't matter to me. I just read the whole book. (Hard to resist!)

    45pollysmith
    Nov 4, 2007, 6:23pm

    yep! Tommorrow we begin!

    4606nwingert
    Maio 5, 2009, 10:50pm

    While listening to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets, I noticed a few things:
    1. Chapter 13 in CoS is titled "A Very Secret Diary" and gives readers a glimpse into V's back story. Chapter 13 in Half-Blood Prince is titled "A Very Secret Riddle" and gives readers a glimpse into V's back story. Coincidence?
    2. In chapter 14, DD gives his famous "I will only have left the school quote." In Deathly Hallows, Harry, though extremely angry with DD, continues his loyalty to DD by fulfilling the Horcrux mission.

    4706nwingert
    Nov 8, 2009, 7:39pm

    I finished re-listening to CoS and noticed a few things:

    1. Immediately before Harry stabs the diary, the narrator says "as though he meant to do it." Is this possible foreshadowing to the Prophecy and Harry's fulfillment of it, or to Harry's destruction of the Horcruxes?

    2. Lucius Malfoy acts oddly when DD mentions that he shouldn't bring any of Voldemort's old school things back into Hogwarts. Does DD Know or suspect Horcruxes at that point? Does Lucius know what was just destroyed and what it means for his relationship with Voldemort.

    3. Lucius Malfoy is described as looking "mask like" during his meeting with DD. IS this a reference to his Death Eater personality?

    48pollysmith
    Nov 8, 2009, 7:54pm

    Well I have always thought that Malfoy acted on his own maliciousness, prehaps hoping that Arthur would get in trouble. But maybe he had once been told by Voldemort to dispatch the diary at a time when it would create a great deal of fear and confusion.

    I do believe DD knew that Voldy had made horcruxes but not so many

    masklike probably means he was simply trying not to appear unnerved

    49foggidawn
    Nov 8, 2009, 8:32pm

    I thought that, at one point in HBP or DH, Voldemort punished Malfoy for letting the diary get destroyed -- but I can't find the reference right now. I don't think Malfoy knew the diary was a horcrux, just that it had the power to make trouble at Hogwarts. Also, remember that at the point Malfoy put the diary in Ginny's cauldron, he thought that Voldemort was defeated, so he wasn't thinking about what Voldemort would say when he found out, because he'd pretty much given up on Voldemort returning. I think he'd found out, maybe by writing in the diary himself, that the diary could make the Chamber of Secrets open, and that was pretty much all he wanted -- to cause trouble for Dumbledore, and to get the Weasleys in trouble in the bargain.

    I do think that Dumbledore knew or suspected that Voldemort had made horcruxes (more than one), but I don't think he knew how many.

    50biblioholic29
    Nov 9, 2009, 8:45am

    DD says as much when he's talking with Harry about Horcruxes in HBP, that the diary more or less confirmed what he'd already suspected but that obviously since LV was still around, there most be more than just the diary keeping him here which is when he started his hunt.

    I think the Malfoy being punished thing is earlier he's either reprimanded slightly in the Graveyard (GoF) or Bella mentions it at the MoM (OotP) but I don't have a book here to check.

    51pollysmith
    Nov 9, 2009, 1:46pm

    Or prehaps knowing the ministry was on the lookout he was trying to get rid of it. If he wanted the chamber opened all he had to do was give the book to Draco. But of course draco couldn't speak parseltongue so thats not holding up.......

    52foggidawn
    Nov 9, 2009, 1:51pm

    #51 -- And put Draco in danger? No, I think he gave it to Ginny on purpose, because that way if the monster from the chamber got her, it wouldn't be his kid that got killed.

    53pollysmith
    Nov 9, 2009, 6:18pm

    Good point, we all know now that the Malfoys are cowards. Narcissa was the only one who showed any courage at all, and that only for dear Draco.