Death Masks (potential for spoilers)

DiscussãoJim Butcher

Entre no LibraryThing para poder publicar.

Death Masks (potential for spoilers)

Este tópico está presentemente marcado como "inativo" —a última mensagem tem mais de 90 dias. Reative o tópico publicando uma resposta.

1Irisheyz77
Jun 30, 2007, 4:48pm

This is a thread in order to discuss the book Death Masks as well as the books that came before since the books aren't open ended and each one builds upon the characters & main plot.

2booklover79
Jun 30, 2007, 6:35pm

Okay, I'm about half-way through Death Masks and it's really good. Where does Butcher come up with this stuff?lol. It's so addicting!

I like that Thomas is back. Even though he's not a very reliable vamp-person you can't help but like him.=) I do want to learn more about the White Court though and more about Thomas.

Oh, I had a question. Does anyone know how many kids Michael has? When Harry stops by his house to ask Michael to be his second in the duel with Ortega Charity pulls up in a van with 2 little girls and the little boy named after Harry. That's 3 kids. Harry was talking their oldest daughter, Molly, before Charity comes home so that made 4. Then when Harry was leaving, 2 boys and another girl came home. Were those kids also Michael and Charity's? That would make 7 kids right?

3Irisheyz77
Jun 30, 2007, 8:15pm

Michael and Charity have seven kids: Molly, Daniel, Matthew, Alicia, Amanda, Hope, and Harry.

Thomas is a great character. Very witty and enigmatic. He's just one of those bad guys that you just can't help but liking.

4MaggieO
Jun 30, 2007, 9:16pm

I can't make notes for this book, as this was one of the ones I had out from the library and it's gone back now.

Anyone else want to remind us what was in this book?

5Irisheyz77
Jun 30, 2007, 9:25pm

From Amazon.com:
Harry Dresden is not having a good day. A vampire named Ortega is hunting the beleaguered wizard, intending to challenge him to a duel that, Ortega claims, will end the war between the vampires and the wizards. Harry has almost no hope of winning the duel, but soon he is preoccupied by another problem: Father Vincent, a priest, needs Harry's help in finding the Shroud of Turin, stolen by a trio of thieves. Harry traces two of the thieves to his hometown, Chicago, but when he finds them, he learns that he isn't the only one after them. A group of terrifying demons wants the shroud, and its leader is interested in Harry's soul, too. Harry must call on all of his friends, including three brave knights, his police-officer friend, and even his half-vampire ex-girlfriend, Susan.

This is also the book where we meet Ivy and Kincaid for the first time.

6MaggieO
Jun 30, 2007, 9:30pm

I like this summary better than the notes I've been doing for the other books. Irish, do you want to post Amazon notes for the other books?

7Irisheyz77
Jun 30, 2007, 9:50pm

I like your notes. You have been doing a good job at them. =)

8seitherin
Jan 11, 2008, 8:45pm

I just finished Death Masks last night. I enjoyed it immensely as I have all the Dresden books to date. I've got to say, tho, that I really liked Ivy. And I liked Marcone in this one.

9Irisheyz77
Jan 13, 2008, 2:32pm

Ivy is a great character =) I liked Kincaid too and am curious to know more if his history.

10reading_fox
Abr 1, 2008, 10:17am

I know Kincaid appears again for a bit in dead beat I would still like to know the details of the backstory.

My biggest problem with this one is that the enemy superinflation has kicked in - 3 major league demons. I mean come on Harry's only mortal (as far as we know?) Not even 100 yet. He shouldn't be able to tangle with them.

And it only gets worse in the later books.

11Irisheyz77
Editado: Abr 1, 2008, 11:56am

But that is part of what makes Harry special. That great destiny that others older and more knowing than him keep alluding too.

12Caspettee
Abr 4, 2008, 5:07am

Thats right and the supernatural and wizard world must be either trying to recruit or kill him for a reason. There is hinted greatness in Harry and it seems to come from his mother.

And well it is more exciting that he is kicking but with lots of baddies.

13Irisheyz77
Abr 6, 2008, 3:18pm

I too find it more exciting when Harry is dealing with a bunch a baddies. Harry too often knows that he shouldn't be able to deal with them. He mentions it often in the books when faced with the latest threat....and even when he is around a more powerful wizard than he is.

I think that is part of what makes Harry so lovable. He is the underdog and yet he always manages to find a way to overcome the great obstacles that are thrown into his path. Who doesn't love to cheer for the underdog? Who hasn't been faced with a situation in which they think that its hopeless and they'll never be able to deal with it? That's part of what makes Harry so inspirational. Yes, he isn't the most powerful or the smartest wizard. But he uses what he does have and manages to find a way.

14reading_fox
Abr 7, 2008, 7:03am

I've no problems with an underdog hero. Overcoming insurmountable odds is fine. Up to a point. It just seems to me that three Fallen Angels shouldn't have ot exert themselves, they just kind of blink or wave a hand, no more Harry. Instead of which we get lots of ridiculous posturing - it isn't internally consistent with how powerful they should be, and that just irks me for some reason.

Or maybe in Harry's world neither God nor the devils are as powerful as I first thought.

15Irisheyz77
Abr 7, 2008, 7:31am

Isn't the the trouble with most villians though? They can usually win the day easily but instead they chose to spend much time talking about their plan and how no one can beat them....which then gives the good guy an opening to save the day.

But I can see where the irksomeness comes in. Or maybe you've hit on something with the idea that the ultimate powers of good and evil just aren't as powerful as people think. Its something to ponder on.

Then there is also that specialness of harry that JB alludes to....the baddies all seem to prefer converting him to their cause rather than just killing him. There has to be a reason for it....right?

16reading_fox
Abr 8, 2008, 6:40am

"the baddies all seem to prefer converting him to their cause rather than just killing him. There has to be a reason for it....right?
"

Well we know he's got a touchof the dark about him - particularly by the end of this one... and what with his mother and all, I think it's reasonable to allow him a chance to join - he is pretty powerful. But once he rejects.....

17Caspettee
Abr 8, 2008, 6:41am

Of course that's it. The specialness.

But then again it could be something as simple as with 99% of story lines that the good guys always um win.

However I am going with the deeper secret that is Harry's power and he is like super powerful deep down, we're talking fallen angel powerful but just doesn't know it yet.

Gives me a warm fuzzy glow to think Harry is just deep down a champion. Or perhaps thats just my cat who has settled on my legs hmmmmmm

18Irisheyz77
Abr 8, 2008, 7:18am

He is different from other wizards. His mother timed his birth in such a way that things were alined just right for him to be powerful. He always started to manifest his powers far eariler than most wizards do. Most wizards start to come into their powers at 16 or so he was a lot younger.

He's also got the street smarts and tends to look at things differently then other people do. So that's got to help. =)

19elbakerone
Abr 18, 2008, 3:47pm

***SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS***

Hope that's enough of a warning.....

I just finished Death Masks and I really liked it. In terms of the "enemy superinflation" problem, I think it's really cool that Jim Butcher doesn't have Harry going up against more and more super baddies on his own. Yes, there are lots more villains to contend with, but it seems like with each new book Harry has more (or more powerful) allies alongside him. I would've thought it cheesy if Harry took on Nicodemus by himself but the fact that he had Michael and Sanya and Marcone with him was a good solution. Also, I really liked how Susan was kicking butt too.

My biggest complaint with the book was with the letter from Shiro at the end. I thought that the "I was already dying" bit seemed really cliche and took some of the impact out of him sacrificing himself for Harry. And also, when Harry used the rope against Nicodemus, I very much saw it coming. I rarely think of Butcher as a predictable writer so that was a little bit annoying.

And one final (petty) gripe, as a Chicagoan I have to point out that Wrigley Field is never referred to as a stadium. (Like I said, it's petty.) Ballpark, landmark, field - yes. Stadium - no. It's something of a rule in Cubs fandom. Usually Butcher is pretty accurate in painting the city so that was a tiny detail that got under my skin.

Still a good book though and I'm diving into Blood Rites next! Also, I was thinking of buying the next few books and couldn't help but notice that Amazon is running a buy three get the fourth free sale on a bunch of paperbacks including Dresden Files and Codex Alera books. Pretty tempting..... :)

20tardis
Abr 18, 2008, 4:14pm

elbakerone, you might as well just buy the whole works now - you know you're going to want them soon enough :)

21elbakerone
Abr 18, 2008, 4:26pm

Here's the dilemma though...

Dead Beat, Proven Guilty and White Night could get me Furies of Calderon for free (that's the first one right?).... but then I just *know* that I'll be addicted to the Codex Alera series and want to buy all those as well.... I'm trying to refrain from Hello Amazon, Goodbye paycheck!

22tardis
Abr 18, 2008, 6:04pm

LOL - there's always the public library for the ones you can't quite afford yet.

23Irisheyz77
Abr 18, 2008, 7:53pm

I 2nd Tardis' motion....you should just buy all the rest too...and toss in a few Alera books just for fun. =) And yes Furies of Calderon is the first book in that series.

Don't forget about Small Favor an excellent installment in the series.

24elbakerone
Abr 18, 2008, 11:08pm

You guys are terrible for encouraging me in this.
:-P~~~~~~

I was at the library this afternoon and they didn't have Furies of Calderon. It was "withdrawn/missing" (oddly enough this is the same problem I had with storm front and fool moon that spawned my purchase of the Dresden Files series....)

So I just went online and bought Dead Beat, Proven Guilty, White Night and Furies of Calderon. I'm hoping that those will keep me busy enough until Small Favor comes out in paperback. :)

Oh the eager anticipation of new books!

25Caspettee
Maio 25, 2008, 12:55am

I must confess to starting the series by borrowing the books from a friend or library. By about book 6 I had started buying them and I have now gone back to purchase my own copies of the start of the series. I know I will go back and read them again and again so I am happy to spend the money.

#19 I know you found the stadium thing annoying but being from Australia I might not have really understood exactly what was being conveyed if he had used another term other then Stadium. At least a stadium is universal and conveys exactly what you mean. Perhaps that was the intention? But I agree it can be a little annoying when it happens to you.

I agree with your point about Harry's allies I hadn't consciously thought of it till you mentioned it and then it just went "ding" in my mind. While I think Harry deep down has more power or significance then has been revealed thus far the fact that he now also has loyal and strong allies has helped a lot.

That was a good call elbakerone and I think it solves the discussion about the increase of baddies.