1001 Group Read, June, 2012: Walden

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1001 Group Read, June, 2012: Walden

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1george1295
Jun 1, 2012, 8:48 am

Walden is the group read for June. Have at it!

2annamorphic
Jun 1, 2012, 10:39 am

I got an early start so I'm a third of the way through. I fear that this is not a book intended to be just read, in the way that we just read books. I would say that you are supposed to dip into it and read little bits at a time, take in a few paragraphs and think over the points. There are lots of little points, some intriguing, some kind of nutty. I find that sometimes the words are just washing over me and I don't think it matters much.

As an American and some-time New Englander (I lived in nearby Arlington MA) Walden feels like a book I should read. It tells me something about where this country came from. But it's not exactly fun.

3japaul22
Jun 1, 2012, 11:00 am

I'm considering joining the group read even though Walden wasn't really something I intended to read this year. I'm expecting it to be kind of a slog, but maybe a group read will help. I've downloaded it to my kindle, so I'll try a little of it and see what I think.

4aliciamay
Jun 1, 2012, 11:41 am

I'm hoping to start soon, and thanks for the reading tip annamorphic. This book has been sitting on my bookshelf for too long, so I am glad to have the incentive to get it read.

5jennybhatt
Jun 1, 2012, 11:44 am

I read Walden about 10 years ago (dipping in and out). I am looking forward to reading it with others this month. I do agree that it is not a book to be read straight through. I intend to continue reading a few of my other ongoing books - Of Human Bondage and Anna Karenina in particular.

6Britt84
Jun 1, 2012, 1:55 pm

Haven't started yet, just read the introduction that's in my edition (with background information on Thoreau etc.)... I am actually kind of looking forward to it right now, I mean, I've heard so much about it, I'm quite curious to se what it's all about...
And as annamorphic, I have also lived in New England, so it might actually be a nice read for that reason as well...

7puckers
Jun 1, 2012, 2:46 pm

I also made an early start and am about quarter of the way through. Quite a dry book with a smattering of humor (I liked the statement that a man who lives by the sweat of his brow must have more sweat than the author). Little to disagree with in the general philosophy. Like #2 though I find there are paragraphs I get to the end of and wonder what he meant. Quite a contrast in style with last months Udolpho!

8MikeMonkey
Jun 1, 2012, 5:33 pm

I think I'm gonna join this group read. Using great detective work I've found my copy of the book. Will start tomorrow.

9Britt84
Editado: Jun 2, 2012, 9:04 pm

Ok, started and read the first chapter... I actually quite like it, I think Thoreau has a great style and writes very beautifully. There are spoilers below, though in this book I don't think it matters much...

I do find his ideas a bit naïeve at times; sometimes it sounds a bit like a rich guy playing at being a farmer.
One of the things that annoys me is that he advocates this as a way of life we should all follow, yet in the first chapter he also describes how he buys or borrows utensils; now, if you want to use such utensils, someone has to fabricate those, right? Which means that this ideal form of life would not be possible for everyone, since some people will have to be employed in making the things that are necessary... But it seems like Thoreau forgets that in this way, his ideal way of life would not be available to everybody, or, if everybody would live like this, he would lack a lot of the things he is using...
Similarly, at some point he argues that we shouldn't keep animals, and states that he himself will never do so, yet he does hire them for ploughing his fields, which I think is rather hypocritical. If you feel we shouldn't keep animals, then you also shouldn't make use of the animals others keep.
So, yeah, I just feel like he can only pursue this dream-life and live comfortably because he has the modern world around him supplying him with the things he cannot make himself. Like it's 'back to nature', but with extras... I just wonder if he would still enjoy himself so much if he would really 'live off the land' without buying extras and using services of those around him that do not follow his lifestyle.
Anyway, those are just some thoughts... Like said, I've only read the first chapter, so I'll see what happens next :)

Oh, and another point: I was just wondering what people think about this book being on the 1001 books list? I mean, it is a 1001 'books' list, so I guess in principle it can be any book, but most of the books on the list are novels, mostly fiction, and even the non-fiction ones are really 'stories'. It just seems to me like this book is a bit out of place, it's not a novel, and not really a story, but more of a philosophical work. Though I do agree that it's a very important book, it just doesn't really fit with the rest of the books on the list (at least, those I've read so far).

10jennybhatt
Jun 2, 2012, 9:29 pm

Britt84, I was wondering the same thing - how this made the cut. In Boxall's book, the reason given is that "Walden is not exactly a novel, but a cornerstone of American literature."

Interestingly, it was picked by a Rowland Hughes, Professor of English Lit at the University of Hertfordshire in the UK. So, not an American. And, as yet another minor twist, UH is my alma mater. :)

11annamorphic
Jun 3, 2012, 5:40 pm

I don't think it fits in with the other books at all! So many other much more relevant books have been booted off because they were "epics" or first written in verse form or whatever -- I'm thinking Metamorphoses or The Iliad. Speaking of the latter, Thoreau seems to be obsessed with this book -- where I am now, he is reading it aloud to a Canadian woodcutter, and they are marveling at its greatness together. In the chapter "Reading" he also lauded it at length. It seemed to me that he was implying that you had to know Greek to read it because it had never been translated into English and I thought 1) is that possible in 1847 and 2) is he reading it in Greek to the Canadian woodsman?

This is a book where I definitely wish for an annotated edition. Mine has no notes and not even an introduction. I really need something to orient me. I am not up on the Transcendentalists. What were they transcending?

12Britt84
Jun 3, 2012, 5:50 pm

I guess it is possible that not all Greek classics had been translated back then; I mean, in those days it was much more common for 'educated' people to also know Greek and Latin (I'm not entirely aware of how this was in America, but in England young boys from respectable families were supposed to at least know Latin), so translations were in a way less necessary, I guess. I doubt the Canadian woodsman understood ancient Greek though :P

And I think trancendentalists were transcending everyday life to find a 'higher' form of living. Like, Thoreau says we should all leave behind our normal lives and go live in the woods because that will give us all sorts of higher things, wisdom and god knows what not. So, by his life in the woods he is transcending the normal life of his day and age to reach a higher, more pure form of living, which allows him to have deep thoughts and gain wisdom...

13ALWINN
Jun 4, 2012, 10:32 am

I started The Walden this weekend and maybe half way through the 1st Chapter and BOY what dry reading....... I take it alittle bit at a time. Sure glad Im tackling this one with a group of people because I dont think I could get through this one at all.

But I agree with #9 this is a guy that as the choice of "playing" a farmer that chooses to live in a cabin in the woods. How different would it be if this is what his life was. But then again he wouldnt right a book about it now would he?

14MikeMonkey
Jun 4, 2012, 12:38 pm

#11: The Swedish edition have some of these verse epics, for example The Iliad and The Odyssey, as well as some Greek plays. That's why I like this edition better than the original.

I also started Walden this weekend and the first chapter surely is a philosophical essay more than a novel. But I kind of like it - some of his ideas sounds really modern to me.

15annamorphic
Editado: Jun 6, 2012, 1:32 am

Around p.150 or so, Thoreau gains points with me for citing the diary of Benvenuto Cellini. But honestly, while his descriptions of nature are infinitely better than those of Anne Radciffe, and he is very careful to state that there is nothing in the least bit sublime about Walden Pond, this is getting very wearying. I am ready to return to civilization.

16ALWINN
Jun 6, 2012, 10:15 am

Yea I got though the 2nd Chapter and while I will agree that sometimes in life we need to let alot of stuff go in life and go back to the basic.

The concept of all news aka current events as being gossip was rather interesting I have to say. But if you stop and think about it ,the morning news or the 6 oclock news and newpapers, he does have a point. Quoting here..." To a philosopher all news, as it is called, is gossip, and they who edit and read it are old women over their tea." Wellllllllllllllllllllllllll.

So if you can manager to stay awake Thoreau does make some very fine points. I have to be very mindful reading this to make sure something sticks with me. So I am finding I have to reread many pages over again. So only a chapter a night then off to some reading that doesnt take so much thought process.

17japaul22
Jun 6, 2012, 1:41 pm

Embarrassed to admit it, but I'm bailing on Walden. I read about 30 pages and decided I just don't have the attention span for it right now. I know I didn't give it much of a chance, but I'm finding it pretentious. I'm already slowly reading Don Quixote at about a chapter a day pace, so I'm not willing to add another slow read into the mix.

I'll be following the thread for inspiration to pick it up at a later date! Enjoy!

18ALWINN
Jun 6, 2012, 2:19 pm

I completely understand but I have a couple of faster reads that I am trying to mix it in with. And I know if I dont go ahead and get it over with now I never will. So Im hoping that some of the others will help me push though...

19Britt84
Jun 6, 2012, 2:27 pm

Well, you shouldn't read too many slow and cumbersome books at the same time, that just won't work, I have to agree with that. And I found Don Quixote pretty tough to get through, so I undertstand not wanting to read Walden also...

20dste
Jun 7, 2012, 12:44 pm

16- I'm not sure that I would go so far as to call all news gossip either, but I do wonder what sort of news was most common during the time period and in the area Thoreau was in. I know that I've seen some old papers from small towns and they have everything from so-and-so bought a new sewing machine to such-and-such people had a fight over a cow escaping, so maybe that's the kind of thing he's talking about. That would make a lot of sense.

21ALWINN
Jun 7, 2012, 3:36 pm

Basic news just the facts I see your point but all though history when have we ever just received the facts pure and simple. Even today it depends on what station you watch on what take you get. Maybe after the major players in a situation is dead and gone do we really begin to find out what may been going on behind the screens then that is still cloudy.

22annamorphic
Jun 7, 2012, 5:07 pm

Definitely the most memorable section of this book so far is the Homeric battle of the ants. It was fascinating until he took the bit of bark inside so he could watch the ants dismember one another with the aid of a magnifying glass. Yikes!

I recognize in Thoreau a certain kind of American who endures to this day. My neighbor is one (perhaps it's the upper-crust, educated New England roots), but he is less annoying than Thoreau. The episode where Thoreau visits the poor Irish laborer with the six kids, tries to explain to him that he should embrace the simple life in his poverty, and then despairs that the man will never understand this notion, is SO patronizing.

23puckers
Jun 7, 2012, 11:12 pm

#22. I'm looking forward to the battle of the ants! So far I'm finding this as soporific as a summers afternoon by Walden pond.

24dste
Jun 8, 2012, 1:21 pm

I think that the part with the ants was definitely one of my favorite parts!

25Britt84
Jun 11, 2012, 12:34 pm

I'm currently at the chapter 'The Ponds', and though I didn't think the book was too bad so far, I'm finding this part rather tedious. I mean, really, fine, so it's a nice pond, I get it... Now start writing about something else already!

#22 I totally agree that Thoreau is patronizing... I guess he's not entirely aware that having a 'simple life' is not that much fun if you're starving...

26MikeMonkey
Jun 11, 2012, 1:53 pm

...and if you have a family. Obviously he's only thinking of single men (women. don't try this).

27annamorphic
Jun 11, 2012, 2:25 pm

#25, sorry to break this to you, but The Pond will be dissected and analyzed ad nauseum right up to the very end. I am on the penultimate chapter and what I don't know about Walden Pond is not worth knowing. 102 feet deep! Freezes every winter right up to April! Shall I describe the bubbles in the ice?

28Yells
Jun 11, 2012, 4:03 pm

Oh man... I was hoping it would get interesting at some point. I just finished the part about the ants and was happy for the diversion!

He does ramble doesn't he? I will plug away and finish but will happily close the cover and never look back.

29kiwiflowa
Jun 11, 2012, 4:33 pm

I'm struggling with the very first chapter - very dry. In my mind I don't think I need to read this before I die. I may read the chapter about the ants and then give the rest a miss.

30arukiyomi
Jun 11, 2012, 5:43 pm

don't worry kiwi, at least the chapters about the pond are a little less dry

hahahaha

31Yells
Jun 11, 2012, 7:38 pm

29 - I did find the first chapter to be the worst (and the longest) so maybe skip that one and carry on? I am finding that it alternates between fascinating insights and mind-numbing blather. Unfortunately, the blather seems to take over.

32ALWINN
Jun 12, 2012, 8:42 am

bucketyell you do understand with that comment is not helping the poor book get any higher on that my GOTTA READ SOME OF THIS WONDERFUL BOOK TONIGHT list right??? Well I guess I still have the ANT sceen to push me forward. But Im with kiwiflowa Im struggling.

33Yells
Jun 12, 2012, 9:11 am

I finished last night and I am mixed. There are parts that are great. He really goes into detail about parts of nature that he finds fascinating (bubbles!) and it's infectious. But then, he just doesn't seem to stop. He over-analyses everything and my mind starts to wander.

I also found that most of his references went over my head because I am not as well-read as he obviously was. I might need to do some research!

32 - the ending is wonderful and spectacular. The best ending ever! (does that help?)

34ALWINN
Jun 12, 2012, 9:18 am

Maybe alittle. I will try to continue with my Chapter or at least a couple of pages a night thing.

35george1295
Jun 12, 2012, 10:44 am

I read Walden years ago and don't remember much about it. Don't want too. I do recall, however, wondering why he didn't write about fallen Autumn leaves, corn flakes, saw dust and holes in the wall. There were other dry, boring subjects that crossed my mind, I am sure. Struggle on readers!! Keep thinking, it could be worse.

36annamorphic
Jun 12, 2012, 3:35 pm

Wonderful and spectacular ending? Did we read the same book? OK, my heart did a little dance when I got the the "different drummer" moment in that final chapter, but there were still about 10 pages of boredom to go after that. I'm giving it 2 stars for revealing to me things about America and especially New England, but I feel that the second star is kind of a gift. You couldn't really edit this book because the minutiae and tedium are kind of the point, but ouch.

37ccookie
Editado: Jun 12, 2012, 7:03 pm

Tedious, tedious, tedious. I gave up on The Mysteries of Udolpho. I may give up on Walden too. Boo Hoo!

38Yells
Jun 12, 2012, 9:44 pm

36 - heh, I was trying to be encouraging by lying through my teeth but even I couldn't keep a straight face when typing that!

39Deern
Jun 13, 2012, 2:16 am

Although this June is a month of rereads of 1001 books for me I just couldn't reread Walden. I am glad I could check it off my list 2 years ago and in my memory it remains one of the most tedious reads ever.

I thought Thoreau must have been quite an unlikeable person in real life, patronizing and impolite (wasn't there a bit about having only 1 or 2 chairs, so visitors must stand?).

I later gave him a second chance by reading his very short Walking where he plainly and without a trace of humour tells the reader how superior America is because among other things there are more types of trees than in France (no, he doesn't say anything about the slightly different sizes of the countries) and because the bridges over the Rhine have been built by Romans and are therefore old and bad, while everything in America is new and better.
I have no problems with a bit of patriotism, but I would have expected a better argumentation from someone who is so well read.

40arukiyomi
Jun 13, 2012, 4:42 am

remind me again... what are you masochists planning for July? The Magic Mountain? heh heh

41Deern
Jun 13, 2012, 4:47 am

I think it's The Golden Notebook. I looked it up in the 1001 book last night and I fear it's another difficult read. No Kindle version available, but there's an online edition.

42arukiyomi
Jun 13, 2012, 7:42 am

Oh yeah... after reading "not a task to be undertaken lightly. It's a very dense and complex book, much of which is basically in stream-of-consciousness" in a review on here, I'm glad that having my nearest bookshop 4 hours by plane away gives me a perfect excuse to sit back and watch the fun!

43Britt84
Jun 13, 2012, 9:48 am

To increase our dislike of mr Thoreau even more:
Did you know that apparently Thoreau himself thought that Walden was a work of revelation, a great work of immense importance that should be ranked amongst works such as the Bible, Homer, Dante and Shakespeare? Though I agree it has been an influential work, to say this of your own book seems just a tad arrogant...

44annamorphic
Jun 13, 2012, 9:51 am

#43 -- just a tad.
#39 -- I think he had enough chairs for one guest and himself. Part of the Simplicity thing, you know. Hospitality he felt to be vastly overrated.
Not that one would have wanted to visit him.

45Britt84
Jun 16, 2012, 3:37 am

Finished last night :)
I'm a bit ambivalent; I really liked parts, I think Thoreau does have a good style, and I can appreciate that in his days his ideas were very new and that the book has been very influential. Then again, I also found it rather lengthy at times; I don't mind descriptions of nature, but Thoreau sometimes just went on and on and that got a bit too much. And though he does make some good points, he is, as mentioned earlier, patronizing and in my view hasn't really thought his ideas through.
So, yeah... Not sure yet... Will mull it over for a bit...

46arukiyomi
Jun 16, 2012, 9:29 am

"hasn't really thought his ideas through." oooh he'd love you for that.... Not!

47Britt84
Jun 16, 2012, 9:47 am

Haha, yeah, I guess I'm a very bad person for commenting on his brilliancy ;)

48Yells
Jun 16, 2012, 4:37 pm

Yeah, he would probably hide his second chair if you came over to visit.

49arukiyomi
Editado: Jun 16, 2012, 10:08 pm

@#48 - ROTFL!
....

....

it has to be the floor, there's no chair~!

50Britt84
Jun 17, 2012, 5:06 am

Actually, he might just feel sorry for me and offer me his chair so he can try to explain stuff. I've also read 'Civil Disobedience' by now, and he really seems to feel like he is on some higher level and that everybody who disagrees with him is simply unable to understand his thoughts. So I guess he'll just feel like I haven't reached the insights that he has just yet and that I need to further develop myself to come to his conclusions...

And anyway, he has no place to hide that chair :P

51puckers
Jun 20, 2012, 6:56 pm

Finished. This was a fairly tedious read. I liked some of his observations, but most of the book fluctuated from rambling philosophy that was difficult to follow, or dull textbook observations on the geometry of the pool, the construction of his house, cultivation of crops etc. I'm sure a different writer could have made his experience more entertaining. 1.5/5

52arukiyomi
Jun 21, 2012, 3:06 am

wow... what did he do to earn that .5 puckers?

53puckers
Editado: Jun 21, 2012, 5:38 am

#52. Hi arukiyomi. Last month I gave The Mysteries of Udolpho 2 points and I thought Udolpho was more entertaining than Walden so I had to give less points than two. I actually found some of Thoreau's philosophy interesting (just not much of it!), so I couldn't give 1 point (the lowest I've ever given for a book). Hence 1.5. I'm sure Mr Thoreau would have explained all of that in about three pages!

PS Looking forward nervously to next month's The Golden Notebook.....

54Britt84
Jun 21, 2012, 7:12 am

Well, congrats on finishing :) At least now you can check it off and don't have to read it again ;)

Btw, I find it rather surprising that if you look at the ratings on the page for Walden it still gets a pretty high rating, and the reviews are generally quite positive, which is not at all the sentiment in this thread...

55Yells
Jun 21, 2012, 8:15 am

My theory on that? I felt rather dumb at times when reading this one - like I was missing something profound . If I was just reading it on my own, I would probably have given it a higher grade just because I wouldn't want to look like the idiot who didn't get it. It's like looking at abstract art with someone who gushes about the importance of it and all you see is a blue dot.

But by reading it with all you guys, I see that I am not the only one who didn't truly get it. He writes some interesting things and I can see why it's important but he needs an editor who can par it down and make it more readable.

56amerynth
Editado: Jun 21, 2012, 3:52 pm

It's funny, it's these group reads that remind me my taste in books is a lot different from most people (I'm one of the few who liked Mysteries of Udolpho last month.) :) I read Walden a few years ago and really enjoyed it. However, it's really been too long since I read it for me to defend why I liked it so much... so I've kept silent on this thread until now. I did keep my copy of the book, which is a sure sign I liked it, since I'm quick to find new homes for books I hated.

That said, when I'm reading off list, I mostly read outdoorsy nonfiction... mountaineering and exploration stuff, so maybe that's why it appealed to me so much.

57JohnSophist
Jul 2, 2014, 2:02 pm

25 years since I last read Walden. I think it should be recognized for contributing the idea of voluntary simplicity, the core of what I remember from the book. I saw folks wondered about translations of Homer: there were some, for instance Chapman's (think Keats) or Alexander Pope's. I've always wondered what translations the transcendentalists had of oriental wisdom, which clearly influenced them. My mother always used to point out that Thoreau was not so self-sufficient as claimed, eating dinner with the Emersons quite a bit and supposedly having a crush on Mrs. Emerson. His hut was on Emerson's property and Emerson bailed him out of jail. His night in jail for Civil Disobedience influenced Gandhi and Martin Luther King, so I'd say he is more than a good prose stylist influential only to his time. Plus he had a patent on modern pencil manufacture. Emerson is on my to reread list somewhere with a new copy, but lately that has been quite a bit longer than available time.