Help needed - 19th c. History & Geography

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Help needed - 19th c. History & Geography

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1myshelves
Editado: Maio 17, 2007, 4:54 pm

Looking at the list of shared books for the group suggests to me that this may be a good place to get help with a history/geography question.

I do genealogy, and have a British relative who is said to have died on the island of St. Catherine, in the Indian Ocean. (No date supplied.) He was born in the early 19th century, and I'd guess that he was in the military, or perhaps a merchant.

I can't find a trace of this island. Probably got a new name in the 20th century? Has anyone come across a 19th century St. Catherine on which there was a British presence?

2Hoagy27
Maio 17, 2007, 9:51 pm

According to my first edition “The Times” Atlas (London, 1868) there were/are several islands named after Christian Saints along the Burma coast of the Indian Ocean. Also in the vicinity was/is Cox’s Bazar, formerly a British Naval base. To the south, in the Mergui Archipelago there were/are many islands named for saints and Englishmen…. Far too many to count!

Incidentally, this whole area, from “the world’s longest beach” at Cox’s Bazar to the glorious “diver’s paradise” of the Mergui Islands simply screams to be the setting for a new Flashy adventure!

I’ll keep looking. Any further details you have would be helpful.

3myshelves
Maio 17, 2007, 10:23 pm

Hoagy27,

Thanks! The Atlas doesn't have an index, huh? I'd never find any place that way! :-)

Oops. I lied in message #1. Just checked my earliest source again, and it says that he was in the Army. So I'm probably looking for an island of St. Catherine with a British garrison. His parents were married in 1802. His father died 1809-1813.

I'm hoping that if I can find the place, I might be able to find some records that will give me more details. Hmmm. I wonder if that Kitzmiller book shows any regiment stationed at a St. Catherine? Wish my library had it.

4kawebb
Maio 17, 2007, 11:56 pm

It's a long shot, but there is a St Catherine's Island off Brazil, and that was the route to India in the age of sail.

Kerry

5myshelves
Maio 18, 2007, 1:05 am

Hi Kerry,

I was wondering about the one off Brazil. I'll have to dig for a connection to the British Army. I don't see anything about the British ever owning the place.

6Hoagy27
Editado: Maio 18, 2007, 9:10 am

“Index? I ain't got no index. I don't need no index. I don't have to use any stinking index.”

Ah yes, an index! There certainly is an index but where’s the fun in that!? Much more fun to pour over the old atlas with a huge magnifying glass trolling for islands!

Using the index would be like reading the instructions! Harumph.

Anyway, there are only two St. Catherine’s listed in the index: one is the island off the coast of Georgia, USA (and so prominently featured among searches of the World Wide Web) and the other is a town in Ontario, Canada.

7myshelves
Maio 18, 2007, 10:28 am

(Grin)

Oddly, my 1952 Atlas doesn't have the famous Georgia one in the index.

Wonder why the one off Wales isn't listed. That one was a military base. And there's another St. Catherine's island off the coast of Croatia!

Wait a minute --- my Atlas doesn't even have St. Helena listed! (And that's a bit famous.) So much for the stinking index.

8Hoagy27
Editado: Maio 18, 2007, 12:33 pm

I looked in my Columbia-Lippincott Gazetteer of the World (1961) under “St. Catherine,” “St. Katherine,” and “Santa Catalina” (just on the off chance that the Spanish or Portuguese may have named it first) but nothing in the Indian Ocean.

I suppose it could be possible that, if it were a military base, it may have been played down in the name of security such as the Chagos Islands in the central Indian Ocean were when all the locals were moved off the islands to make way for a giant US/British military complex. Nowadays, what with the World Wide Web and all (the islanders have their own web site), I suppose keeping something like that quite is a bit more difficult.

9Hoagy27
Maio 19, 2007, 6:19 pm

More on the search for St. Catherine’s Island.

After checking a number of world gazetteers as well as several guides to islands of the world, I’ve found a reference to a Catherine Island (not St. Catherine) contained in the Gazetteer No. 32, Indian Ocean, published by the United States Board on Geographic Names in 1957.

Here is the listing:
Catherine Island ISL 19 45 S 63 19 E 5890 07

ISL is the abbreviation for island.

The next two sets of numbers are the coordinates:
Latitude 19 degrees, 45 minutes South
Longitude 63 degrees, 19 minutes East

The number 5890 refers to the administrative division of Rodrigues and refers to the area in which the feature is located.

The number in the last column indicates a map on which the feature may be located by its standard name. 07 refers to British Admiralty charts produced by the Hydrographic Department, Admiralty, London.

My Times Atlas of the World (10th Comprehensive edition) shows nothing at those coordinates but Google Earth places them within the lagoon off the western side of Rodrigues Island. Due to image clarity of Google Earth I cannot be certain if there is much of an island there but, looking back on the Times Atlas I see a small unnamed islet at that location. Alas, this island is so small that it is hardly likely to be the one you seek… but, you never know.

Incidentally, my search turned up a web site I had been previously unaware of:

The Getty Thesaurus of Geographic Names Online at http://www.getty.edu/research/conducting_research/vocabularies/tgn/index.html

Although it had nothing on the island we are seeking, you may wish to bookmark this useful site for future use.

I believe the University near here has the British Admiralty charts in their map room. I’ll see if I can get my hands on them.

10myshelves
Editado: Maio 19, 2007, 11:33 pm

By gad, Hoagy27, well played!

That sounds very likely to be the right place. (Maybe my original author was confusing the name with the more familiar St. Catherine, off Wales.)

It doesn't sound like much. "Catherine Island, rocky and wild, offers a magnificent view on the western coast from its peak. It acts as a shelter for the fishermen who come to the island at times to rest." But as you say, you never know. If not there on duty, my man could have been there exploring, collecting botanical samples, climbing the peak, . . . and have died in an accident or fall.

By looking for Mauritius, I've already got a list of possible regiments, some of which look like good possibilities for my man.

And --- you have to love this! --- one of the regiments (the 33rd) went on from there to join Flashman On the March.

I'm not going to become wedded to the theory (bad practice), but I'll do a lot more searching based upon it and see what turns up.

Thanks!!

11Hoagy27
Editado: Maio 20, 2007, 10:17 am

Excellent! Looks like we have a solid candidate.

This line from the Wikipedia entry on “Rodrigues (island)” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rodrigues_(island) may give it further weight:

“In 1809, after a brief battle, British troops, took possession of Rodrigues.”

The article also indicates that your man would have had plenty of reason to be there exploring or collecting botanical samples:

“Rodrigues has developed a unique environment, including many endemic species: 42 species of trees; the Rodriguan bat; two species of bird, the Rodrigues fody and the Rodrigues warbler; and on the reef a species of coral, two species of damselfish and many new species of crustaceans.1 Other endemic animals such as Rodrigues giant tortoises and Rodrigues Solitaires are now extinct. The coral reef of Rodrigues is of particular interest as it is self-seeding - it receives no coral zooplankton from elsewhere. This has led to the development of the endemic coral and a small number of species being present. The coffee plant café marron, was thought to be extinct until it was rediscovered in 1979.”

Very nice coincidence that the 33rd regiment went on from there to join Flashman On the March! If it weren’t for the pesky fact that the Abyssinian War took place in 1868 a creative writer could have worked your man into the story. Perhaps even using this juicy tidbit also from the Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramosmania_rodriguesii:

“Café marron or Ramosmania rodriguesii is native to the island of Rodrigues in the Indian Ocean. It was thought to be extinct until a single surviving tree was spotted by a schoolboy in 1980, who was shown a drawing of the plant by his teacher. The only image of the plant was made in 1877, by a European visitor, passing through Rodrigues. By the 1950s, it was presumed to be extinct. Cuttings were taken to Kew Gardens, and although the plant regularly flowers, it never produced seed until horticulturists discovered how to pollinate the flowers. In 2003 the café marron bore its first fruit with viable seeds. Slow but steady efforts have been made to grow more café marron trees and speed up the pollination process.”

12myshelves
Maio 20, 2007, 10:13 am

In 1809 . . . British troops, took possession of Rodrigues. . . . It was then governed as a separate British territory until May 30th 1814, when its administration was transferred to Mauritius.

That's why I was looking at Mauritius. Easier to find, and I reckon they'd be the same regiments, with smaller garrisons on the other islands. Or am I jumping to a wrong conclusion there?

William (for that was the chap's name) could even have been looking for a dodo. If your schoolboy could find that extinct tree. . . .

I haven't yet found anyone on the family tree who is sure to have encountered Flashman. One was in the Crimea, but seems to have spent all his time at the siege of Sebastopol. A couple were in India during the mutiny, but I haven't pinned them down to dates & places. If Fraser would publish those American Civil War papers, I might find something on this side of the Pond. :-)

13Hoagy27
Editado: Maio 20, 2007, 3:55 pm

A very impressive family history you have there. It seems my family, from what I know so far, has spent many generations running from, and otherwise avoiding, wars and other personal military entanglements. Over the years they fled from the Rhineland, Swiss cantons, the Low Countries, Scotland, England, and Pennsylvania to avoid the depredations of various “troubles.”

Be that as it may, I went back to Google Earth and took a better look at the Catherine Island coordinates and found the island itself which I had missed in my earlier views. I zoomed down to about 500 feet above sea level and gave it a slight oblique angle to heighten the physical features. You can view the result at: http://picasaweb.google.com/Hoagy27

14myshelves
Maio 20, 2007, 12:39 pm

Er. . . is the picture really Catherine Island, not Caroline?

15Hoagy27
Editado: Maio 20, 2007, 4:17 pm

Whoops! My mistake. It is Catherine Island… I spaced out in the previous post and wrote Caroline. Sorry.

I’ve added a couple more Google Earth pictures to the “Island” album so you can see the over all geography. Catherine Island is marked with its coordinates.