Group Read - Beloved

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Group Read - Beloved

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1cammykitty
Set 5, 2011, 9:14 pm

Here's the group thread for Beloved. Post away!!! Please put the chapters you are discussing at the top of the post so people can avoid spoilers.

2cammykitty
Set 5, 2011, 9:19 pm

<124 was spiteful. Full of a baby's venom.

Hmm... I guess we can all tell from that, this won't be a gentle read!

What I've read of Morrison's so far: The Bluest Eye and The Song of Soloman. I was in college when I read The Song of Soloman, and it was near one of our breaks. I remember flying home and telling my mother about it. I broke into tears. Usually, my mother tried to follow a lot of my college reading. This time she said "why do they make you read books that are so painful." I didn't have the words to tell her how much I loved the book, even though I was crying weeks later.

So, I'm going to start reading Beloved tonight. I may not sleep well, but I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

3LauraBrook
Set 6, 2011, 9:36 am

I'm going to try and join in, but seeing as I just added 2 more books to be read this month, I'm not sure it's going to happen. At any rate, I'll pick the book up from the library today or tomorrow and give it a crack! I read Song of Solomon in college too, and had a similar reaction - some of the emotional "imprints" are still stuck with me 10+ years later!

4ivyd
Set 6, 2011, 2:03 pm

I'm still waiting for my book to arrive -- should have been here last week, so maybe today or tomorrow.

I haven't read any Toni Morrison, so this will be a new experience for me.

5ivyd
Set 7, 2011, 12:04 pm

Beloved did arrive yesterday, and I started. Only about 30 pages, so it's too soon to say anything except that it's interesting.

My edition doesn't have chapter titles, or even chapter numbers. It's about 325 pages. Are others about the same? I can't see how to identify progress or spoilers except by page number...

6cammykitty
Set 7, 2011, 5:33 pm

I assumed there would be chapter numbers. Ha!!! Looks like there is a section one and a section two. We'll have to use page numbers for spoiler prevention then.

I'm only about 50 pages in. I had a bit of trouble getting acclimatized to the writing style, perhaps because I was very very tired. Perhaps though because she is not writing this book like any other book.

I've noticed she is using a lot of repetition, not just about the stolen milk but that was what I first noticed. Another author, I might think it was strange editing. Morrison, I'm sure she's up to something.

The other thing noteworthy is her use of time. She's obviously not using a chronological narrative structure. She starts when the baby is already dead, then her Last of the Sweet Home men arrives, then we go to before his arrival, then after his arrival. I don't have my book with me, otherwise I'd pull a quote from that odd and beautiful section where she talks about time, death, and last embodiments of experiences/visions. I'm wondering if she isn't playing with a spiral structure, where time collapses in on itself and what is present is so intertwined with the past and future that it isn't worth trying to separate the experience into a before, now, after. Morrison may also be using the repetition to collapse time.

Well, I'll keep reading. I may be off track, but that's what I'm thinking now.

7LauraBrook
Set 7, 2011, 6:35 pm

I just picked up my copy from the library today, and will hopefully get started on it before the week is out. For now, I need to read Divergent, which was due yesterday and I'm only on page 50! At least it's a fast read.

8cammykitty
Set 8, 2011, 1:20 am

Sounds good Laura!

9pammab
Set 8, 2011, 7:01 pm

6

I read Beloved a few months ago on audiobook,* and I was struck by how the repetition that you mention really contributed to the texture of the book. It gave the novel much more of an oral history feel -- and thus a more historical feel, a less modern-day-universal-literacy feel -- than I think it might have otherwise, and sets up a nice contrast with the usual written word. (I'll forgo the spoilery illustration.)

(* the audiobook was read by Morrison herself, and I'd highly recommend anyone give it a listen if they are interested -- the language and her voice are absolutely gorgeous together)

10cammykitty
Set 8, 2011, 8:16 pm

9 I've heard Morrison speak before. That audiobook would be wonderful. When I'm reading it, I do start hearing the cadence of her voice in your head. & oral history is a really good observations. So much of the book is about telling stories, and passing stories down in the family.

11rainpebble
Editado: Set 14, 2011, 12:00 pm

I think I will join you for this group read. I am currently reading a book of non-fiction so I can easily read this one at the same time without my eyes crossing or some other dire occurrence. I watched the movie eons ago and was quite taken with it, ran out & bought the book but haven't yet read it so now would be a good time. I will most likely begin it sometime today.
Good reading,
~belva

12cammykitty
Set 15, 2011, 12:44 am

Glad to have you with us Belva!!!

13rainpebble
Set 15, 2011, 2:49 pm

Thank you cammykitty.
I am ready to begin page 139. I am at the spot where Paul D is moving himself bit by bit out of the house and where Beloved has come to him.
I like the characters, I am enjoying and appreciating Morrison's style of writing in this one but on the whole I am not drawn in to the story. I will finish the book but by being half way through the thing, I don't imagine that my opinion will change. It could, but......
I hope you are all liking it better than I am. I had high hopes for this one as I loved the movie. But at this point I am just anxious to complete the book and move on to something else; to the point that I have not picked up my Hemingway bio since I began Beloved. I am just wanting it done.
~belva

14cammykitty
Set 16, 2011, 1:41 pm

I'm finished reading it, but am waiting for some more comments to start talkign. Sorry you aren't loving it, Belva. It is definitely an uncomfortable book, but it sounds like it isn't the subject matter bothering you. You just don't connect with it. It isn't really a connect with the characters sort of book.

I'm thinking Pam really hit it on the head with the discussion of oral tradition. A friend of mine is a professor and had a student react that the ghost part of the story cheapened it. What do people think of the ghost? Especially the ghost from an oral tradition point of view?

15pammab
Set 18, 2011, 11:11 am

I'm still not sure what to make of the ghost.... I walked away from Beloved wanting to read some literary criticism and contextualization, because I felt like the book was speaking on levels that I couldn't understand. :-/ That to say -- I'm interested to hear others' thoughts.

16cammykitty
Editado: Set 18, 2011, 2:27 pm

If I met this student, I'd be tempted to say "Really? There was a ghost?"

SPOILER! DON'T READ UNLESS YOU'RE FINISHED

I'm seeing the book as a traditional oral ghost story that starts with some emotional truth, but then becomes exaggerated. I'd say there really was no ghost, and use the party where the two chickens somehow became four turkeys as my evidence. That, and the gossip the townspeople came up with when they realized that Sethe needed help. As for Beloved, she was that sad thing some white guy had been keeping as a toy. Notice her story about the bridge and the skinless one dying above her. It fits with that.

Personally, I think Morrison did a clever job of writing the story so that it can be read either way - there was a ghost, or there was an emotional situation that was easier for everyone to interpret and repeat as a ghost story. After all, the *true* story sans ghost is pretty hard to take.

17rainpebble
Editado: Set 18, 2011, 5:02 pm

My thoughts & comments:

1st read several years ago: This story creeped me out but I loved it and found it fascinating at the same time. I will read it again.

2nd read: The first half of the story I found very difficult to get into. I liked all of the characters and I love how it is written but I just could not concentrate and follow the story well at all. Just before I got into the second half of the book, I found myself suddenly enmeshed within the story-line. I think the book brilliantly written and a very thoughtful story of the subject matter.
It is difficult to discuss this story or to know what to say about it. I can picture all of this actually happening in the time and place of the story. I will leave it to those much better versed than myself to actually review it. I gave it 4 1/2 stars and like before, I will read it again.

SPOILER ALERT

Regarding the ghost; I read it as if there actually was a ghost. I think the chickens/turkeys and all of that talk was a way that the community could accept the supernatural events going on at 124. I do, however, see this story as one being told through the generations and then being written down.
I agree that it can be read either way and as I said above, I think it brilliantly written. It turned me around from the first part to the end by at least a 2 star rating.

18ivyd
Set 21, 2011, 1:42 pm

I'm a bit behind. I started a couple of weeks ago, thought it was interesting but didn't find it compelling, and read a couple of other books before coming back to it. I'm now just barely into Part II (220 or so pages).

>6 cammykitty: time collapses in on itself and what is present is so intertwined with the past and future that it isn't worth trying to separate the experience into a before, now, after.

Brilliant observation, cammykitty! I think that's exactly her intent, and having read your comment has helped me understand...

>13 rainpebble: I am not drawn in to the story.
>17 rainpebble: Just before I got into the second half of the book, I found myself suddenly enmeshed within the story-line.

I've felt the same way, Belva. I'm wondering, though, if this isn't her intent. I don't think she's trying for an identification with Sethe; she's exploring how such a thing could have happened and why. I didn't read the Foreword until well into the book, and then I was upset that it contained a major spoiler and wondered why she didn't make it an Afterword rather than a Foreword. But I'm thinking that she did intend for it to be read first, since knowing before one starts would tie into the theory of exploring the situation... and probably make the beginning more compelling.

>14 cammykitty: What do people think of the ghost?

I'm not usually a fan of paranormal and more often than not, I dislike ghost stories. But somehow this ghost just strikes me as normal.

I haven't read the comments marked "spoilers" since I'm not done yet. On the whole, I'm finding the book rather unpleasant, very disturbing, extremely powerful, brilliantly crafted. I think there are layers and layers of meaning, much of which I'm probably missing.

19cammykitty
Set 21, 2011, 5:25 pm

18 ivyd On the whole, I'm finding the book rather unpleasant, very disturbing, extremely powerful, brilliantly crafted. That's my reaction too, in a nutshell.

20ivyd
Set 22, 2011, 3:03 pm

Spoiler Alert: Finished

Re the ghost:
I see 3 options: the ghost was real; the ghost was a figment of Sethe's (and Denver's) imagination and desire, enhanced through the oral tradition; the ghost was really the girl who had been confined.
Or, perhaps, all three. She leaves it open, but all three options are supported by the story.

Re the 4 short chapters where Sethe, Denver & Beloved claim "she is mine": I didn't understand these chapters, a big departure from the rest of the book, except that they made me wonder whether Beloved lived only in their minds. Any ideas or comments?

My overall opinion is still the same as yesterday. But I do have to say that I didn't like the book very much.